City spends $400,000 on study to move fair from downtown

[jandar]

TBH, even during the heydays of Midnight Madness at the fair, while living on the westside of Jacksonville, I rarely went to the fair.

A couple of thoughts here regarding this possible move:
The Greater Jacksonville Agricultural Fair is not an Urban Fair. The entertainment is usually 80% country acts, with 10% R&B/Soul and 10% old rock act.

"Old rock acts." Is Eddie Money going to be content with performing at the equestrian center? I think we really need to get his thoughts on the matter.

http://www.jacksonvillefair.com/fair/entertainment.php

Yeah, I don't think any of this year's entertainment would sell out even a small club tbh.
I mean Loving Spoonful had some great songs, back in the 60s.

[finehoe]

Yeah, I don't think any of this year's entertainment would sell out even a small club tbh.
I mean Loving Spoonful had some great songs, back in the 60s.

The club couldn't be too small.  You need room on the stage for their wheelchairs and walkers.

[Seraphs]

Yeah, I don't think any of this year's entertainment would sell out even a small club tbh.
I mean Loving Spoonful had some great songs, back in the 60s.

The club couldn't be too small.  You need room on the stage for their wheelchairs and walkers.

Now that's ugly.

[Ocklawaha]

http://s0.ilike.com/play#The+Lovin%27+Spoonful:Daydream:99935:s2817982.8105822.10129591.0.1.80%2Cstd_3049b13e8932dfdc294f5d74a8fc0ee3

Hey y'all just don't appreciate good music...  At least they could have booked BLACK OAK ARKANSAS...

I really have mixed emotions on this issue, while I have seen fairground facilities (just check out Clay County) in the country that blow away anything we've ever had, I hate to see downtown lose another venue.

If they MUST MOVE, then how about we go all the way with one of the better facilities in the entire country? Something so cool that major events would be beating a path to our door. Oklahoma has the Lazy E which is something like I'm speaking of:

http://www.lazye.com/
















A true first class facility would create it's own momentum. This thing is out in the middle of nowhere (well actually the town of No Where is a bit southwest of the arena), and has world class televised events. Drop this into a fairgounds WHEREVER and the bucks would roll into town.

OCKLAWAHA

[Fallen Buckeye]

I thought the Equestrian Center was a bad idea when it was originally built so I'm not suprised about a concept that tries to save this sinking ship at the potential expense of struggling inner city neighborhood.  The planner in me desires to look for a solution that leaves the facility in its current location and solves the occassional Sports District parking situation while utilizing the fairgrounds property to help anchor the Eastside, Sports District and Philip Randolph Blvd.  Does anyone know of successful urban fairgrounds remaining in the United States?  I'm interested to see their layout and location compared to our facility.

Rather than comparing Jax's fair to other fairs in the area like Bradford or Clay Counties, I think it's better to compare them to state fairs. And when you see the successful state fairgrounds it's the same as with the successful convention centers it's about complementing uses and accessibility. Most are easily accessible to the interstate. Ours isn't really. Also, the fact that the equestrian center is far removed from the fairgrounds seems like it could set up a situation where they almost compete with each other for events. Given that we are pretty much equidistant from both ends of Florida it would seem that Jacksonville would be a good location for statewide livestock shows and that type of thing, but I didn't see anything like that at either venue. I think that syncing up could be a good thing because they could build to suit for that sort of gig and with that new road being built it would link right into I-10. However, it seems like the money could be better spent right now on other things and it would leave a big gap in the middle of a struggling area. Costs of moving outweigh the benefits.

[Ocklawaha]

Does anybody know where the Jacksonville fairgrounds were before the 1950s?

We were "NASCAR" before there was a NASCAR but then we gave that away too because it was reported that some heathens were using the races for... OMG! G A M B L I N G !

Yes, from downtown take the Brentwood/Fairgrounds streetcar line to Andrew Jackson school on North Main, your trolley will turn left behind the school and continue west on Woodbine to the end of the road at Golfair. This is where the streetcar loops around, but the race track and fair grounds are right there where appropriately a funeral home stands today. From the end of the car line (west end of Woodbine) all the way to Moncrief Road and from Golfair all the way up to Gateway Mall. The stretch along Woodbine is easy to ID as it is much higher then the other streets and dotted with many period business buildings. The crown jewels of France from the revolution are buried somewhere in the west end of the property but thats another story.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Does anyone know of successful urban fairgrounds remaining in the United States?  I'm interested to see their layout and location compared to our facility.

How about this close?

...and it's really big

Just west of the downtown skyscrapers is this jewel of a fairgrounds, and it will soon be connected to downtown via LIGHT RAIL + COMMUTER RAIL

Costs of moving outweigh the benefits.

I tend to agree and the chance of ever getting there on a streetcar or light rail train are about ZERO! The downtown location could have rail within 5 years, bummer.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Nice find Ock.  Btw, the original fairgrounds were located within walking distance of the current site.  Jacob S. Parker's 1876 site was off present day Talleyrand Avenue between Marshall and Jessie Streets.  That neighborhood was originally known as the City of Fairfield and Parker (the fair's founder) was its first mayor.

[CS Foltz]

I wonder who, within the City, decided this was worth $400K to investigate? I would have looked into it for only $100K!

[ricker]

I've read this thread and hope I am not missing something.. .
I think I understand correctly what happened the other night at the city council meeting.
Was ALL funding stripped from the Equestrian Center for this next upcoming fiscal year?
If so, what could $400 large truly be covering?
money laundering?

[stjr]

No money was removed from the Equestrian Center.  It was one very late night last minute proposal that was quickly shot down.  As Ron Littlepage aptly noted there are dozens of events already scheduled there, the staff that takes care of it also runs the aquatic center and adjacent park and would still be needed and, most importantly, open or not, the taxpayers would still be paying the tens of millions in bonds issued to build it.  So, closing it would just mean the city spending much of the same money with no benefit for it.  Thus, they left it untouched.

[CS Foltz]

ricker..............that thought did cross my mind but more than likely one final pay off to those connected to the inner circle! That Horse Joint costs us something like $641,000 a year to run. Ron Littlepaiges wife is connected with it and I have allways been confused about that place! If it can not stand on its own, without taxpayer money, why is it still running? Somehow I don't think the downtown core really gives a darn about  that place and I wonder why it has not been sold? City strapped for cash..........sell it! Enought acreage DR Horton, or someone like them, would love to put up some Condo's overlooking all of those tree's......then the taxpayers could pay for the roads and everything else that would have to go in! I wonder if Paul Harden was connected with this from the start?

[uptowngirl]

I do not get this place either! At first I thought maybe you could rent trail horses or take riding lessons or something, but no....it seems to be a place for people who already own horses to bring their horses or watch horse shows or competitions?
Ot would be really cool if they HAD horses for rent or lessons out there, then more of the population could use it, otherwise it seems like a park made for a very small segment of the public to use.

[Springfielder]

I don't believe this very expensive center was ever intended to be utilized by the mainstream folks like us. I never really understood why the city paid (and continues) to pay for this, it seems to be it should be a privately owned center.

[thelakelander]

^That's probably one of the reasons the city wants to give the fairgrounds $8 million to move and take it over.  Although the fairgrounds is fine where its currently located, that's a tough offer to ignore.