Downtown Traffic

[tufsu1]

There have been many threads on here over the past few months with topics like "is downtown dead" and "downtown has more parking spaces than people"...so I decided to do a bit of research on traffic ocounts along downtown streets.

Now note that some vehicles are just passing through downtown, with origins and destinations elsewhere...with that disclaimer aside, here are average annual daily traffic (AADT) counts on some downtown streets from 2009:

Main Street Bridge - 30.500
Acosta Bridge - 27,000
Main Street at Forsyth - 14,500
Ocean Street at Adams - 10,500
State Street west of Jefferson - 25,000
Union Street west of Jefferson - 26,500
State Street west of Main - 27,000
Union Street west of Main - 26,500
Arlington Expwy at Spors Complex - 47,000
Bay Street west of Broad - 8,600
Forsyth Street west of Lee - 7,300
Lee Street at Prime Osborn - 4,000

I will look through some traffic count histories at these locations and post tomorrow.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Do all the studies you want, unless there is a major event DT,,its as dead as they come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thelakelander]

Great thread. I'd be interested to see stats for streets like Julia, Pearl, Monroe, Duval and Laura as well. Most of these don't have a ton of through traffic and happen to be lined with empty storefronts.

[Ocklawaha]

TUFSU1, Very nice finds! Can you post the AADT for:
Newnan (Between Independence and Orange)
Main (Between Orange and 8Th)
Water
Independence
Duval (Between Lee and AP Randolph)
8Th (Between Main and Boulevard)

All of these are on our Springfield Streetcar proposal. If you have the counts for the Riverside Line, that would be good to see too. Here's the Riverside proposal:

Myrtle (Between Bay and Forest)
Forest (Between Myrtle and Riverside)
Riverside (Between Forest and Post)
Post (Between Riverside and Oak)
Oak (Between Post and King)
King (Between Oak and Park)

Thanks

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Great thread. I'd be interested to see stats for streets like Julia, Pearl, Monroe, Duval and Laura as well. Most of these don't have a ton of through traffic and happen to be lined with empty storefronts.

the counts I looked at come from FDOT, so they are often only on major roads....I believe the City conducts traffic counts on local streets, so maybe we could try and track some of these down.

[tufsu1]

So saying that these trips on the through streets (all of them are incidentally, especially for traffic going through downtown from riverside to springfield.  Notice where the 'west of' points are on the listing) represent a person driving both to and from their destination, not accounting for the people who drive to downtown work places, then drive to lunch, then back to their offices, then back home....
Forsythe Street West of Lee, (which is the furthest end of LaVilla only has 3,500 people per day average?  and thats 24 hours?

I cant wait to see the traffic counts for streets that are actually in the traditional parts of downtown.

One would hope that they would be triple or quadruple these numbers.

I'm pretty sure there is no way of explaining traffic patterns to you, so I won't even try.....with this exception.....AADT means all traffic all day....so it includes work trips, shopping trips, recreation trips, trucks....everything.

btw...Forsyth west of Lee has 7300, not 3500...and that is vehicles, not people...assuming an average auto occupancy factor of 1.4, that would be about 10,000 people

[tufsu1]

The purpose of this thread was not to state that "downtown is dead" or "downtown is not dead"....I was curious to see if traffic in the downtown area has changed significantly over time...in response to claims that downtown has declined significantly over the past 5 years.

So, here's what I found...

the traffic count on Lee Street only has count history back to 2008 and the Acosta location doesn't have any count history (it must have been a new station in 2009)....combined totals in 2009 for the other 10 count locations was 223,400....here are the total stats on those same locations going back to 2004.

2004 - 227,000
2005 - 222,500
2006 - 226,500
2007 - 200,600
2008 - 224,200
2009 - 223,400

So basically traffic is down only slightly over time...which given that stae and national trends show traffic all over down by 5% over the past 2 years, the downtown area is holding its own.  

[acme54321]

I don't really care about any of these numbers, but I can give my personal experience driving downtown.  I think it's great, I can't recall driving down there where there was really any considerable traffic (on any normal day).  I do usually go on the weekends, or after work and it's dead.  It's nice though because I can find a parking spot quickly and never have to wait in traffic jams!

[cline]

Great thread. I'd be interested to see stats for streets like Julia, Pearl, Monroe, Duval and Laura as well. Most of these don't have a ton of through traffic and happen to be lined with empty storefronts.

Julia (N of Bay) - 1,103
Pearl (between Bay and Forsyth) - 3,657
Pearl (N of Water) - 3,624
Monroe (W of Pearl) - 2,683
Laura (N of Adams) - 3,624

These are 2008 AADT counts

[tufsu1]

So are you saying that 7300 separate people are taking those trips, TUFSU.  Because if you are, then maybe it would be interesting and enlightening for you to explain traffic patterns to me.

nope...not saying that...I'm saying there are 10,000 people in vehicles on that segment of Lee every day....it is an equatable measure to transit ridership.....if 1 person rides transit 4 times in 1 day, that's counted as 4 riders.

Stephen has correctly noted that AADT counts deal with cars, not people....but the Census does provide information on auto occupancy rates by metro area....the Jax. metro area is around 1.4 for all trips....which is how I arrived at 10,000 people based on 7300 vehciles.

[cline]

TUFSU1, Very nice finds! Can you post the AADT for:
Newnan (Between Independence and Orange)
Main (Between Orange and 8Th)
Water
Independence
Duval (Between Lee and AP Randolph)
8Th (Between Main and Boulevard)

All of these are on our Springfield Streetcar proposal. If you have the counts for the Riverside Line, that would be good to see too. Here's the Riverside proposal:

Myrtle (Between Bay and Forest)
Forest (Between Myrtle and Riverside)
Riverside (Between Forest and Post)
Post (Between Riverside and Oak)
Oak (Between Post and King)
King (Between Oak and Park)

Thanks

OCKLAWAHA

Myrtle (S of Kings) - 7,313
Forest (@ 95 overpass) - 7,950
Riverside (25' S of Post) - 14,000
Post (100' W of Riverside) - 5,100

Couldn't find any data on Oak.  Again these are 2008 AADT counts.

[tufsu1]

correct....trips are counted both ways

again, I do not wish to debate this....but one can draw a cordon around an area to get a fairly decent picture of people coming to or leaving from an area.

So, while it is true that some folks on State and Union may be just passing through (I-95 to Mathews Bridge),  just about everone getting off I-95 onto Forsyth St is destined for downtown.

And note that I provided a disclaimer about through trips in my original post.

[cline]

TUFSU1, Very nice finds! Can you post the AADT for:
Newnan (Between Independence and Orange)
Main (Between Orange and 8Th)
Water
Independence
Duval (Between Lee and AP Randolph)
8Th (Between Main and Boulevard)

Newnan (S of Adams) - 4,863
Main (100' N of State) - 10,000
Water (200' E of Broad) - 9,485
Water (between Broad and Park) - 2,839
8th (150' E of Pearl) - 8,900
8th (200' W of Boulevard) - 13,900

[uptowngirl]

Great thread. I'd be interested to see stats for streets like Julia, Pearl, Monroe, Duval and Laura as well. Most of these don't have a ton of through traffic and happen to be lined with empty storefronts.

Looks like all my neighbors are shopping at Costco '-)

Julia (N of Bay) - 1,103
Pearl (between Bay and Forsyth) - 3,657
Pearl (N of Water) - 3,624
Monroe (W of Pearl) - 2,683
Laura (N of Adams) - 3,624

These are 2008 AADT counts

[braeburn]

What exactly can be gleamed from these numbers and data? After the rush hour the city is completely dead, unless you are around the Landing or the Bay St. "area" on the weekends or there is something exceptional to the outside world going on DT.

The numbers here are probably accurate, of course. But what is the actual percent of data where people actually stop, park and attempt to enjoy the city? What percentage of this traffic pays attention to any promotion or marketing of the city itself or downtown eateries and businesses while "passing through?"