First Coast Tax Day Tea Party

[NotNow]

It is not absurd or "by default" incorrect.  What makes you say so?  And what makes you think that you "know the truth" and others don't?

[NotNow]

I would start with these two:

Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Education in the US is traditionally a local matter, and local school districts are generally the form of administration.  Accreditation is generally done by private interests or a combination of districts.  The entry of the ED in Jimmy Carte's administration has only served to politicize the amount and distribution of Federal money to the individual states and districts. 

With a $70 billion dollar budget, and 5000 federal employees, we would be more efficient in distributing the money if we just put it our on a per capita basis and save the bureaucracy.  That is, if we just continue to forget about that pesky 9th and 10th amendment.

[Sportmotor]

Racist, sexist, homophobe. That's how those who dissent against "progressive" nonsense are described. So be it.

heaven forbid that anyone actually be racist, sexist or homophobic, right?

I guess that would require some proof.  Like badly spelled signs carried around in public?

It's racist to point out that somebody's being racist, you know.

WAIT WAIT WAIT, explain this...

[NotNow]

A "prohibition" is not required.  The Federal government is limited in scope and power.  It has grown though a creative view of certain "clauses" which have come together over the years to become the behemoth that we now have.  Most often, federal power grabs are not challenged at all anymore.  This Department has been called unconstitutional since the day Jimmy Carter proposed it.  It's only purpose is to put political pressure on states.  The USG was not charged with "education" in the US Constitution and it needs to butt out, per the 9th and 10th.

Where do YOU see the authority to create a Department of Education?

[NotNow]

Our country has made choices?  Really?  That is your argument?  How many times has the USSC decided that a "choice" the country made was unconstitutional?  Your argument makes no sense.   It is my belief that the words in the 9th and 10th ammendments are clear. 

Perhaps the will of the people will be heard...and heeded soon.

[NotNow]

Local police and fire are county or city functions and have nothing to do with this conversation.  You do know that don't you?  As for agencies such as the FAA and others, I do not argue that the President can appoint cabinent officers according to Article 2, section2.  My argument is that education has always been a local, state, or private affair.  That the USG injection of political influence is in violation of the spirit and words of the 9th and 10th, done like it has always been done by the federal government , by buying their way in. 

I must acknowledge that this is also due in a large part to the desegregation issues of the 50's and 60's IMHO.  The states did not act in a rational way and the USG acted to force desegregation, creating the framework for political control of the education system.  I also acknowledge that this action was necessary at the time, but that power should have been relenquished upon the completion of desegregation. 

[NotNow]

Since you added to your post I will continue...I also acknowledge that the people elected President Obama (as well as President Bush).  I still believe that we have a national interest in a stable and friendly Iraq.  (Look at a map.)  If we are going to expend our treasure and our blood (twice), why would we knowingly allow the political landscape to return to safely harboring those that would kill us, as well as those that seek massive weapons?  Would if be wise to holster our weapon and turn our back on those that have sworn to kill us?  

[NotNow]

I thought that I was clear in stating that the framework for the entry of the USG into local education was built largely on the actions taken by them to desegregate public schools during the civil rights period.  I stated that that was a rightful action, and a good example of why we have an "executive" branch, to take quick and forceful action when needed.  I then stated that when the need subsided, the fed should have dismantled the system and returned total local control.

I stated clearly that IMO the Department of Education was created (by Jimmy Carter) in order to apply political pressure on the states through funding.  No big words there.  No hidden, racist agenda.  But you make up whatever you want.

We have had the Iraq discussion before.  Start a new thread and if I am still allowed here tomorrow then I'll repeat myself again.  I am going to bed.

[buckethead]

But wanting our elected officials to be more fiscally responsible instead of continuing to drive our country further and further into debt while at the same time continuing to raise taxes, well, it isn't such a bad idea.

So where were they when Bush was turning a $128b surplus into $490b deficit?  Why weren't they protesting then?

Bush squandered surpluses that never existed, but squander them, he did. (You did not really believe the government ever had "extra" money, did you?)

Two wars that were unneccessary have been the greatest burden, although many of my conservative brethren are not likely to agree.

[buckethead]

On the issue of Federal "control" of education:

How have students (the presumed beneficiaries) fared since the creation of the NEA?

Better?

Worse?

Unchanged?

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

I would start with these two:

Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Education in the US is traditionally a local matter, and local school districts are generally the form of administration.  Accreditation is generally done by private interests or a combination of districts.  The entry of the ED in Jimmy Carte's administration has only served to politicize the amount and distribution of Federal money to the individual states and districts. 

With a $70 billion dollar budget, and 5000 federal employees, we would be more efficient in distributing the money if we just put it our on a per capita basis and save the bureaucracy.  That is, if we just continue to forget about that pesky 9th and 10th amendment.

States don't HAVE to take federal education money, you know.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

http://www.youtube.com/v/rShXn-C01BU&hl=en_US&fs=1&

[JeffreyS]

I love the thank you comments smug but true.  If the Tea Party was really about unfair taxes Obama would be their hero.

[JC]

On the issue of Federal "control" of education:

How have students (the presumed beneficiaries) fared since the creation of the NEA?

Better?

Worse

Unchanged?

This argument about constitutionality is a distraction in my humble opinion.  Public schools are a failure, granted so are many parents but it has to be acknowledged that the government made a contract with parents to provide quality education for their children and they are not doing it.

Florida Officials Fail to Provide Quality Education, Suit Claims

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By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: November 5, 2009

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) â€" The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit on Thursday accusing state officials in Florida of failing to ensure that students in Palm Beach County receive a high quality education, as evidenced by their poor graduation rates.

The state court suit, filed in West Palm Beach, names Gov. Charlie Crist, the Board of Education and several political leaders and asserts that they are violating a requirement in the Florida Constitution to provide a “uniform, efficient, safe, secure and high quality” education.

“Palm Beach County is clearly not upholding its responsibility to provide a quality education to all of its students when so many of them are not graduating,” Chris Hansen, senior staff lawyer with the A.C.L.U., said Thursday in a statement.

Mr. Hansen added that the issues in Palm Beach County reflected a national problem.

A spokesman for Mr. Crist, a Republican, did not have immediate comment.

Nat Harrington, a spokesman for the Palm Beach County School District, said graduation rates had increased to 80 percent as a result of specific initiatives.

“We know we still have work today, and are focused on getting that work done,” said Mr. Harrington, who said he had not seen the lawsuit.

The suit contends that one-third to one-half of the county’s students do not graduate on time with a regular diploma, well below state and national averages, and that graduation rates varied from 56 percent to 71 percent in 2006, depending on the method used to calculate them.

The A.C.L.U. also highlighted the disparities among black, Hispanic and white student graduation rates. The gap between black and white graduation rates was 30 percentage points over the past five years, the organization stated, and 20 points between Hispanic and white students.

“All students, regardless of their age, race, special needs, ethnicity or gender, deserve an environment that breeds success, not failure,” Muslima Lewis, director of the Racial Justice Project at the A.C.L.U. of Florida, said in a statement.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06aclu.html

There are of course other factors which present problems, how many single income families still exist?  Having a parent stay home with the kids is a luxury but the benefits are a necessity.  And then of course there is the divorce rate, how is a single parent supposed to work more than full time to meet the basic needs of her (in most cases) children and check to see that the spelling homework is done?  If parents are not home with their children, how can they make sure their kids aren't bullying on facebook? 

My other beef with public education is the lies that are taught to children regarding our history.  Oh and who can forget the establishment of a hierarchy that is supported by schools?

[Dog Walker]

The establishment of the Department of Education was in 1980.  Twenty Five Years later.

Stephen, you are being disingenuous.  You know full well that most school systems in the South did not even start desegregating until the 1970's at the earliest.  My wife was in the Desegregation Office of the Hillsborough County School system in the middle 1970's to begin to implement school desegregation there.  She helped write the plan.  She had taught for years at an all black middle school in Ybor City.

That said, the Federal Dept. of Education is certainly one of those departments of the Federal government that could be abolished without being missed.   Like the Tea Tasting Board (yes, it existed for decades), the time for it has passed.