A LOLA yelled out to Joe "go ahead, lie some more!!"

[Hypocrite]

Buckethead, in response to your questions, and with no name calling, as it's clear you are operating on a badly outdated perception of our neighborhood.  Don't feel badly, though. Most Jacksonville residents are just as clueless about the reality.

Yes, you are mistaken in regard to the popular perception that Springfield is dilapidated and crime-ridden.  It was for a time...no question.  However, in the last 10 years or so, most of the homes have been renovated and crime, while not completely gone in Springfield or any other neighborhood in Jacksonville, is no longer the major problem is was.

No, most of the historic structures have not been robbed of their architectural elements, their fixtures, or their copper.  Come take a drive around and see the beautiful homes, or attend one of our homes tours.  SPAR has one coming up in May.

No, residents are not forced to take extra precautions for their air conditioners, although some have.  We had a copper thief targeting the neighborhood for awhile, so it wasn't a bad idea.  There's a scrap metal recycling facility near Springfield, so that made us convenient.

Yes, a person can take a random drive through Springfield and feel secure that they and their family would be secure in Springfield...at least as secure as anywhere else in town.  No place is perfect.  We do, in fact, have many families with children in Springfield.

Debbie, I have to agree with most of your post with the exception of the bad perception part.  People on these boards may know the truth about the neighborhood but before I decided to build in Springfield, I did my research which started with just asking people what they thought of Springfield (I just wanted an idea of public perception) because I had been living out of state for about 12yrs.  Out of about 20 people I asked, about 15 of them still had the outdated look and thoughts of the neighborhood.  Now, they had this thought because they hadn't ventured there lately and the 5 that thought the neighborhood was making a turn had been there recently. 

I made a post on Facebook back when my realtor (who happens to be my mother) was going to take us to look at some of the SRG houses in Springfield.  It didn't even take an hour for people to start posting stupid stuff like "how can you endanger your children like that", "why would you want to take your wife and daughter to be around child molestors and rapists?"  Needless to say, I snapped right back with how stupid that was to think that and to even accuse me of putting my family in a not so safe situation. 

So, it is still common thought that Springfield is dirty, crime ridden and just slum like.  Honestly, that is fine with me.  I have quickly come to the thought of, I don't want people to know about Springfield, I don't want to have to convince them about where I live. I love the place and they haven't even laid the foundation on our place.

[Ocklawaha]

WHY ALL THE DRAMA? SPRINGFIELD IS EATING MJ!

I had lunch there today, right at 8Th and Main, as I live in WGV I thought I'd see what SPAR has been up to. Walking down the west side of the sidewalk to 7Th, I passed one abandoned doorway, complete with pillow, blanket, and about 1/2 ton of garbage (supplies?).

Tracing the old streetcar line from Main down 8Th toward Talleyrand can be hazardous to your health, though you could apparently buy enough diversions, from flesh to Marrakesh.

Over at the VA clinic, they finally fixed the craters along Boulevard Street parallel parking after the 349 disabled patriot dropped his axle over the curb and became stuck, only to be ticketed by the parking Nazi's. They brought out the heavy equipment and loads of limestone and started grading and leveling. They installed about 20 new parking enforcement signs allowing for a STRICT one hour parking (your screwed if your medical appointment goes a bit long). After all that they packed up and left! Now the clinic has a beautiful Springfield road, with big chunks of limestone mixed with weeds and washed out grasses. There are two improvements, even though they never put a ounce of asphalt or concrete down, they did  1. Post a parking Nazi who even when not visible, has an all seeing eye for disabled veterans.  2. They cleared the litter and other trash from the craters... but of course they allowed it to flow into Hogans Creek just south of 8Th.

Meanwhile, down in the central park system along the said creek, one can have a really nice stroll if you don't stray too near the creek, as long as the wind is blowing AWAY from that ditch. Closer in toward downtown there are walkways and balusters liberally dotted with human excrement and spent toilet paper, rags, napkins, and corn cobs.

Though I'm an urbanest, current invested in the burbs due to economic opportunities, we have looked downtown several times. Springfield has a few possible places I have seen and one that I rather like, but I suppose my grandson would have to attend First Baptist or some other private school. Springfield has some lovely old schools until you see that the principal has driven to the school in an M-1 Abrams Tank.  Okay, just kidding, but does ANYONE send their kids to the local schools?

I've heard that several people have wanted to open new businesses along Main Street, but SPAR has disapproved of either them, their business, or their plan... Hell just a year ago, this entire sight went mad over someone leaving a "Room for rent" flier in a local Springfield Gas Station. SPAR was all about kicking out the riff-raff which seems to be defined as your tired, your poor, your hungry, or your huddled masses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I live out in St. Johns, and you know what? If someone wanted to reopen or build a car wash, and sell coke and chips my whole neighborhood would welcome them and turn out for the opening day "hot dogs and balloons." If SPAR can't do the same in Springfield, someone needs to ask why? Doesn't that suggest that deep down the very organization itself suspects almost anyone and everyone as a possible code breaking blight on the community.  Yet way out here in the boondocks we'd be throwing a party because we could BUY coke and chips without having to drive 8 miles. We'd celebrate the new neighbors, the new business, the new convenience, and toast their success... Are the people in Springfield REALLY that different? Someone please explain to me why if the neighborhood is so safe and attractive, everyone is so suspect?


Not being a smart ass here, I'd really like someone to dig down and figure this out...


OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

Actually, the only "chair throwing" I have heard about was at a SPAR Council meeting or just after it rather that the WC. And it was sometime ago.  I think ChriswUFGator may have just heard about the incident and so mistook the time and place as the more recent hoopla at the WC.

I believe you are right. I got my dates mixed up. I do know one of the SPAR LOLA's lobbed a chair at a meeting, since I heard about it from 5 different people. But I wasn't there personally, so I got confused as to exactly which meeting it was. Thank you for reminding me, and my apologies to everyone for the confusion.

[fsu813]

WHY ALL THE DRAMA? SPRINGFIELD IS EATING MJ!

I had lunch there today, right at 8Th and Main, as I live in WGV I thought I'd see what SPAR has been up to. Walking down the west side of the sidewalk to 7Th, I passed one abandoned doorway, complete with pillow, blanket, and about 1/2 ton of garbage (supplies?).

Tracing the old streetcar line from Main down 8Th toward Talleyrand can be hazardous to your health, though you could apparently buy enough diversions, from flesh to Marrakesh.

Over at the VA clinic, they finally fixed the craters along Boulevard Street parallel parking after the 349 disabled patriot dropped his axle over the curb and became stuck, only to be ticketed by the parking Nazi's. They brought out the heavy equipment and loads of limestone and started grading and leveling. They installed about 20 new parking enforcement signs allowing for a STRICT one hour parking (your screwed if your medical appointment goes a bit long). After all that they packed up and left! Now the clinic has a beautiful Springfield road, with big chunks of limestone mixed with weeds and washed out grasses. There are two improvements, even though they never put a ounce of asphalt or concrete down, they did  1. Post a parking Nazi who even when not visible, has an all seeing eye for disabled veterans.  2. They cleared the litter and other trash from the craters... but of course they allowed it to flow into Hogans Creek just south of 8Th.

Meanwhile, down in the central park system along the said creek, one can have a really nice stroll if you don't stray too near the creek, as long as the wind is blowing AWAY from that ditch. Closer in toward downtown there are walkways and balusters liberally dotted with human excrement and spent toilet paper, rags, napkins, and corn cobs.

Though I'm an urbanest, current invested in the burbs due to economic opportunities, we have looked downtown several times. Springfield has a few possible places I have seen and one that I rather like, but I suppose my grandson would have to attend First Baptist or some other private school. Springfield has some lovely old schools until you see that the principal has driven to the school in an M-1 Abrams Tank.  Okay, just kidding, but does ANYONE send their kids to the local schools?

I've heard that several people have wanted to open new businesses along Main Street, but SPAR has disapproved of either them, their business, or their plan... Hell just a year ago, this entire sight went mad over someone leaving a "Room for rent" flier in a local Springfield Gas Station. SPAR was all about kicking out the riff-raff which seems to be defined as your tired, your poor, your hungry, or your huddled masses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I live out in St. Johns, and you know what? If someone wanted to reopen or build a car wash, and sell coke and chips my whole neighborhood would welcome them and turn out for the opening day "hot dogs and balloons." If SPAR can't do the same in Springfield, someone needs to ask why? Doesn't that suggest that deep down the very organization itself suspects almost anyone and everyone as a possible code breaking blight on the community.  Yet way out here in the boondocks we'd be throwing a party because we could BUY coke and chips without having to drive 8 miles. We'd celebrate the new neighbors, the new business, the new convenience, and toast their success... Are the people in Springfield REALLY that different? Someone please explain to me why if the neighborhood is so safe and attractive, everyone is so suspect?


Not being a smart ass here, I'd really like someone to dig down and figure this out...


OCKLAWAHA

My response to OCKS questions were moved, not sure why, as he asked....

so here they are again:

"I had lunch there today, right at 8Th and Main, as I live in WGV I thought I'd see what SPAR has been up to."

Simply attend one of the various public meetings or give them a call if you'd like to know what they've been up to. The next one is tonight @ 7pm. It's a Board meeting but they are always open to the public.

"Okay, just kidding, but does ANYONE send their kids to the local schools?"

Yes, there is another thread on this. Some are highly rated, some are not.

"I've heard that several people have wanted to open new businesses along Main Street, but SPAR has disapproved of either them, their business, or their plan... "

You need to find a better source for your information then. How about attending on of the various public meetings or giving them a call? Or asking Three Layers, Fusion, A&A Auto, Wafaa & Mikes, Hola, Uptown, City Kidz, 3rd & Main Apartments, Fortec, Shifters, H&R Block, Tommys (all businesses within the historic district) if they feel the organization has been anti-business. Not all businesses will be welcome, of course, just like anywhere else.

"SPAR was all about kicking out the riff-raff which seems to be defined as your tired, your poor, your hungry, or your huddled masses. "

Again, you need to find another source for your information. The best would be to attend one of the various public meetings or, if you cannot, send them an email or call them.

"If someone wanted to reopen or build a car wash, and sell coke and chips my whole neighborhood would welcome them and turn out for the opening day "hot dogs and balloons." If SPAR can't do the same in Springfield, someone needs to ask why? Doesn't that suggest that deep down the very organization itself suspects almost anyone and everyone as a possible code breaking blight on the community.  Yet way out here in the boondocks we'd be throwing a party because we could BUY coke and chips without having to drive 8 miles. We'd celebrate the new neighbors, the new business, the new convenience, and toast their success... Are the people in Springfield REALLY that different? Someone please explain to me why if the neighborhood is so safe and attractive, everyone is so suspect?"

Different areas of town have different issues, you know this. St. Johns County & Springfield have very different concerns, you know this. Or you should. If you'd like to find out what issues Springfielders are trying to address or the organization has done this or that, (broken record) attend one of the various public meetings and ask, or give them a phone call and speak to them about it. There is a balance to be struck between being naive & suspect, which, unfortunatley, is necessary.

[strider]

And Stephan, what is very interesting is that a actual SPAR Council board member has been posting studies on other threads that indicate we should be doing exactly what is accomplished by the sober houses.  Yet, what is SPAR Council doing?  Trying their best to get the houses deemed illegal by the city, the state or anyone who might possibly listen to them.  So much for those fine SPAR Council board members  advocating for true integration of the various social economic groups and being all inclusive.

[Miss Fixit]

This is another thread that could benefit from a name change!

Strider, I haven't had any in depth discussions with SPAR members (board or otherwise) about sober houses.  What are the stated reasons for keeping them out of the neighborhood?  Is the problem really their mission (which I think is admirable) or is it related to concerns about maintenance and suitability of physical facilities or something else?

[strider]

Miss Fixit, just some “light” reading from this forum.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6645.15.html

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6509.0.html

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6380.0.html

I would be happy to discuss the sober houses and how they have been perceived and attacked by SPAR Council’s executive board anytime.  Coffee at Three Layers on me?

But it boils down to this: they do not like the men and woman who need the sober houses in "their" community, they do not understand what we do and therfore have fear over it and they certainly do not like us because we can not be bullied by the likes of them. 

[Miss Fixit]

Coffee sounds good.  I'll PM you to set it up.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

So mentioning that Springfield was predominantly white 100 years ago (REAL FACT) constitutes playing the race card? I guess I just can't help myself, being half a pickaninny and all.

Were you there 100 years ago or are you just assuming it was boring because white people lived there?

Very enlightened of you

Not even close! Springfield was quite lively 100 years ago. Go to the Florida Room at the downtown library and read the society columns from the newspapers back then if you don't believe me. (And no, despite what certain people may say, I was NOT here 100 years ago.)

I just think Springfield would become boring if it became an exclusive wealthy white enclave NOW. I've been in a few wealthy white neighborhoods recently, and there's no quirky little shops, all the houses are painted in the same tasteful shades of white, gray and beige, they all have the same kind of shrubbery and flowers, loud music not permitted, and individuality of any kind is discouraged.

I find that pointlessly boring. Bland uniformity serves no purpose but to give people a false sense of security, and provide neighborhood associations with a revenue stream from fining people for planting the wrong color tulips.

[buckethead]

Atlantic Beach just called. They want their homogenous blandness and uniformity back.
Apparently they didn't get the memo.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

No matter. That unpleasant person seems to have been so busy scanning my post for something to pretend to be offended about that he missed my point entirely, which makes him not worth arguing with.

DeadGirls:  I ran across this photo of you from San Marco back in the 80s.  I think you were still working with Phyllis at the first Peterbrooke's.

Was San Marco this acrimonious back when it was going through the changes?  I don't remember it being so mean, although there it seems like there was constant scandal.  Five Points went through a pretty hostile phase, I can vouch for.

I never actually worked in the Square.  Do you remember anything like all this?

Good God, no. I remember having to snatch the samples off the counter and hide them when a certain lady (whose real name I don't recall) came into Peterbrooke, and hung around idly chatting with anybody who would listen for as long as it took her to eat every last morsel out of the bowl of chocolate-covered popcorn, for which she was nicknamed "Hoover Lips."

Keeping that odd bit of trivia in mind, I'm sure there were some petty squabbles going on in San Marco, but I don't recall nastiness worth remembering 20 years later.

Actually, I remember the merchants in San Marco Square helping each other out with things. The movie theater provided Peterbrooke with lovely fresh popcorn, and Cafe on the Square let me use one of the unused upstairs kitchens to make the giant chocolate chip cookies. I'm sure Phyllis was doing some kind of favor in return.

Then there was the shopkeeper who planted flowers all over the Square... I believe the other merchants chipped in on the cost of the plants.

And some shop owners gave each other's employees discounts and so forth. I don't remember anybody being hateful and nasty; if they were, they did it so slyly and politely that little peons with chocolate-smeared faces didn't notice. (Phyllis let you eat all the chocolate you wanted as long as it wasn't packaged up for sale, back then.)

P.S. Yes, there was probably a cause-and-effect relationship between the brandy in that snifter and the giant black velvet bow on my head. That bow was no end of fabulous in the 80s, and I refuse to apologise for it.

[ChriswUfGator]

And Stephan, what is very interesting is that a actual SPAR Council board member has been posting studies on other threads that indicate we should be doing exactly what is accomplished by the sober houses.  Yet, what is SPAR Council doing?  Trying their best to get the houses deemed illegal by the city, the state or anyone who might possibly listen to them.  So much for those fine SPAR Council board members  advocating for true integration of the various social economic groups and being all inclusive.

That's because they mis-quote the authors and don't bother to actually read the entirety of what they're posting. They just find a snippet or two that, taken out of context, gives the false appearance of supporting their position. I'm fed up with watching this happen. I sent a letter to W. J. Wilson this morning, I have too much respect for him to allow him to be included in Zoo's reprinting of "The White Man's Burden." She certainly managed to accurately sum up her position on who should be "allowed" in the neighborhood, moving forward. I'll give her that much.

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

I find that pointlessly boring. Bland uniformity serves no purpose but to give people a false sense of security, and provide neighborhood associations with a revenue stream from fining people for planting the wrong color tulips.

i love you for this.  your icon's pretty nifty too.

[Sportmotor]

P.S. Yes, there was probably a cause-and-effect relationship between the brandy in that snifter and the giant black velvet bow on my head. That bow was no end of fabulous in the 80s, and I refuse to apologise for it.

You sound, amazingly intresting to chat with.