Anyone interested in true SPR community meeting?

[jason_contentdg]

I personally obtained all but 13 of the signatures. I did it in 2 days so it was limited to how many people I could find at home. I have no idea how many were SPAR members and how many were not, it didn't matter. We are a neighborhood of individuals and this had nothing to do with any organization. I find it insulting when anyone claims that any person is a mouthpiece for an organization rather than a concerned resident of the neighborhood. I took the copy of the planning departments report and the letter from the chairman of HPC with me when I was collecting signatures. I let people know that there were supporters on both sides and that were petitions circling both pro and con. Out of my 105 signatures, 98 were homeowners in Springfield and 28 of those homeowners live within two blocks of the carwash. I had everyone sign their names and include their address and phone number or email so everyone I talked to could see who was supporting this. 13 residents of Springfield took 5 hours out of their day to attend the hearing and speak in opposition to the exception.
The supporting side had a petition with 59 signatures collected over the internet since November.
The speakers who spoke in support included the manager of the Alcoholic Center on 4th St., both owners of the Thrift Store and Home away from Home on Pearl St., Stephen Dare, The Paster of a church near the carwash that I have never seen at a neighborhood event in the 9 years I lived here (all non residents BTW) and the grand total of three residents, so I think the argument about a few speaking for many is a moot point right now.

Unfortunately, planning staff, and this is because the information didn't get to them on time, made all of its recommendations based off of an old site plan that didn't address any of their concerns like the images we presented to them yesterday did.  Would that have changed staff's report, maybe or maybe not.  

Also, the fact that the "convenience store" has played such a huge part to everyone (judging by many of the concerns), except to the people that actually were close to the situation, and those that saw the Metro Jacksonville article stating what Silas wanted to sell at the store, may have influenced some of those signatures.

One thing's for sure, there were passionate people on both sides, and shows that people do care about the future of Springfield.  I'm just hoping for the future that people have time to hear factual evidence about proposed projects...be it evidence for or against.

[fsu813]

"And every single speaker against was a SPAR member."

- not true.



Dan B,

all petitions were submitted to the commission. i assume they are public record now.

why don't you see exactly what the wording on the petition is yourself, before you allege a dishonest petition. Also, before the condition was put in place by the comission, he could have sold whatever he wanted out of his convenience store. So that was 100% accurate.

BTW -still no takers to dispell the previous "petition conspiracy". some people aren't intersted in facts, just propaganda.
     t-y-p-i-c-a-l


"why not put yourselves in a position of power, buy helping Silas, and guiding him to doing something good?"

- for the various reasons they stated at the hearing yesterday. all had good reasons. the supporters had good reasons too. so, ya know, who's to say which is MORE right? time will tell i guess.


Now that it's over, for all intensive purposes, i'm excited to see how it will look. Wonder if they will have to repave the lot?

[jason_contentdg]

fsu, you're right...he could have sold anything he wanted, but he wanted to sell the items that he listed.  This was always going to be on the table as a condition that he was ready to provide, however and could have been discussed with the community if given a chance beforehand.

The lot for the car wash will certainly be repaved, or at the very least resurfaced.

[Dan B]

Time wont tell. SPAR has already shot itself in the foot.

Silas may be the bigger man and let you guys back in the door. However, If I were him, I am not sure I would.

As it sits, he got support from other community business owners and local residents who did what SPAR should have, and helped guide him to making some crucial changes to help him get his business open.

Against him every step of the way, and not even so much as willing to hear his plan, and offer some suggestions that might make it more community friendly?. SPAR.

There may have been other names on your list, but the only people who showed up to speak against him (which takes a special kind of motivation) was SPAR.

Congrats on neutralizing yourselves so completely.

[PorchCats]

I personally obtained all but 13 of the signatures. I did it in 2 days so it was limited to how many people I could find at home. I have no idea how many were SPAR members and how many were not, it didn't matter. We are a neighborhood of individuals and this had nothing to do with any organization. I find it insulting when anyone claims that any person is a mouthpiece for an organization rather than a concerned resident of the neighborhood. I took the copy of the planning departments report and the letter from the chairman of HPC with me when I was collecting signatures. I let people know that there were supporters on both sides and that there were petitions circling both pro and con. Out of my 105 signatures, 98 were homeowners in Springfield and 28 of those homeowners live within two blocks of the carwash. I had everyone sign their names and include their address and phone number or email so everyone I talked to could see who was supporting this. 13 residents of Springfield took 5 hours out of their day to attend the hearing and speak in opposition to the exception.
The supporting side had a petition with 59 signatures collected over the internet since November.
The speakers who spoke in support included the manager of the Alcoholic Center on 4th St., both owners of the Thrift Store and Home away from Home on Pearl St., Stephen Dare, The Paster of a church near the carwash that I have never seen at a neighborhood event in the 9 years I lived here (all non residents BTW) and the grand total of three residents, so I think the argument about a few speaking for many is a moot point right now.

Springfield Girl - today's post aside, you know I am not anti-SPAR - and I applaud you when you stand up to what is a very concerted and mean-spirited anti-SPAR smear campaign on this board. But you were not the SPAR member that stopped by my house.  The SPAR member who stopped by my house is, yes, a very concerned neighborhood resident - and - just as clearly - was representing SPAR and SPAR's position on this. Because the initial presentation of the petition was misleading, we debated for a good 30 - 40 minutes after the initial assertion about stopping the convenience store.

It is my opinion that this neighborhood would not be what it is without SPAR, good and bad but always generally upward. However, since we moved here, SPAR has grown a bit hard of hearing and continues to shoot itself in the foot now and again.  It's time to step back and really listen to the entire neighborhood - which is much, much larger than the SPAR membership represents.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yes, they are the largest, and have well over 100.

"Well over 100" could mean 100,000,000 or 101. You're talking without saying anything. What's the actual number?

[ChriswUfGator]

Time wont tell. SPAR has already shot itself in the foot.

Silas may be the bigger man and let you guys back in the door. However, If I were him, I am not sure I would.

As it sits, he got support from other community business owners and local residents who did what SPAR should have, and helped guide him to making some crucial changes to help him get his business open.

Against him every step of the way, and not even so much as willing to hear his plan, and offer some suggestions that might make it more community friendly?. SPAR.

There may have been other names on your list, but the only people who showed up to speak against him (which takes a special kind of motivation) was SPAR.

Congrats on neutralizing yourselves so completely.

+1,000,000

No possible way to say that any better than you did.

[Springfield Girl]

Porch Cats, I agree and was worried that you would think my post was directed at you and it wasn't. You have always been very open minded and fair, besides being a good friend. It was posted towards someone who after being unfairly, mercillessly bashed in the past, I would have thought would have not been such a jerk to those neighbors with differing opinions.

[Sigma]

Time wont tell. SPAR has already shot itself in the foot.

Silas may be the bigger man and let you guys back in the door. However, If I were him, I am not sure I would.

As it sits, he got support from other community business owners and local residents who did what SPAR should have, and helped guide him to making some crucial changes to help him get his business open.

Against him every step of the way, and not even so much as willing to hear his plan, and offer some suggestions that might make it more community friendly?. SPAR.

There may have been other names on your list, but the only people who showed up to speak against him (which takes a special kind of motivation) was SPAR.

Congrats on neutralizing yourselves so completely.

+1,000,000

No possible way to say that any better than you did.

At my table last night - the gentleman stated " but the car wash designed is not historically appropriate!!"

My response, "Well that's where SPAR can help him and Content Design with the proposed improvements.  Why hasn't SPAR worked with Silas?" 

I got no answer.

[fsu813]

"Who do you think wasnt a member?"

- the guy that said his family has lioved in the 'hood since 1904 (i think) and that he wasn't a Spar member.

"and not even so much as willing to hear his plan"

- again, not true, he was given time at a public meeting to announce his plans.

"Why hasn't SPAR worked with Silas?" 

- b/c they were in support of the overlay and Zoning's recommendation. No sense is working on something that you don't support. Now that it's over, I hope they do. I told him I didn't support it, but now that's it done I hope it does well. He wasn't upset. I don't think he will harbor a grudge.

[Sigma]

Well, let's see if SPAR offers their support or advice for Silas then.   I would hope so.

"- b/c they were in support of the overlay and Zoning's recommendation. No sense is working on something that you don't support."

And that didn't seem to stop SPAR from supporting 3rd and Main and 3 Layers, who also needed an exception to the overlay.  SPAR bent over backwards to work with these owners. Why not at least try to work with Silas before opposing? 

[ChriswUfGator]

Why hasn't SPAR worked with Silas?

- b/c they were in support of the overlay

If SPAR is just 'supporting the overlay,' then why did SPAR back multiple exceptions and variances that are contradictory to the overlay, including VanHorn's well-publicized flops? Come on, you guys are just picking and choosing who is on your shitlist, and then hiding behind the overlay to try and kill whatever you don't like. SPAR never seems to have a problem supporting nonconforming uses whenever it feels like it.

Seems like some highly selective enforcement there...

[nvrenuf]

"and not even so much as willing to hear his plan"

- again, not true, he was given time at a public meeting to announce his plans.

I was at the meeting when he announced his plans. What followed was just shy of pulling out the tar & feathers. Lots of people talking over him, not letting him finish, loud conversations amongst themselves as to why they don't want that without even listening to him. Personally I was horribly embarrassed at the treatment he received with not much attempt (or was it ability?) by the President to control the meeting. I told Doug V after the meeting that there was no way in hell I'd want to stand up in front of that group. These are all nice enough people in normal situations but it is truly incredible and mortifying that of which the crowd mentality is capable.

[Dan B]

Sorry, FSU, I was not aware that it was in the bylaws/Mission Statement to Kowtow to various city agencies. I was under the belief that SPARS stated mission was to improve Springfield, protect its history, and encourage economic growth. My bad.

Explains all of the demolitions though, after all code enforcement wanted them right?

[Steve]

Anyone been to Moon River Pizza Lately?

Seriously - how long is this going to go on?  Let the man wash some cars.  Heck, if he does good work, I'll come over from Riverside (all of four miles).