Anyone interested in true SPR community meeting?

[fsu813]

Sheclown,

you do relilze that they are the largest and most effective organization in the neighborhood, right? that much is indisputable. And btw, i've heard that though membership is down from previous years (before all this in-fighting), it's up of late. So if they don't represent, then who does?


Springfielder,

keep up the good work.

[urbanlibertarian]

What if it were hosted by an elected official or neighborhood pastor?

[strider]

Springfield Girl: You guys have taken it upon yourselves to start a media campaign against SPAR saying they do not support businesses ie, Pawn shops and thrift stores. You guys are very vocal in saying that the org. does not support halfway houses. I talk to so many people on a daily basis and since the news stories the residents I have talked to all said well yeah, we don't shop at pawn shops or thrift stores. I have been on the SPAR board for 2 years and never has anything been said about trying to shut down the pawn shops or thrift store, that's not what we do. People forget though that SPAR is not some unknown they. We are residents of Springfield. None of us get to decide what the neighborhood wants or does not want. That includes me and you. Now as individuals we all have ideas about how we would like to see the neighborhood grow. Some in the neighborhood may want businesses like thrift stores and pawn shops and some many prefer businesses like Uptown Market and Three Layers. The only thing that decides what existing businesses will stand and which will fall is the market. No one can keep others from supporting or not supporting any business. I choose the businesses where I want to shop no matter what part of town I'm in and so do others. It's not conspiracy, just individual choice.

Thanks for giving us that credit, but the truth is, they came to us.  They asked questions and we simply answered.  Then they went to Louise and asked questions.  No, any media campaign going on here is not our making, it is all of Louise and Company’s doing.  And, yes, I do not think it sheds a very good light on SPAR Council and their take on business on Main Street, or all of Springfield for that matter. But that is as much your doing as anyone’s.

By and by, I never said anything about residents as a whole wanting to get  rid of us.  I do know for a fact that there are some within SPAR Council that would prefer to see the pawn shops, the convenience stores, the thrift stores and pretty much anything they do not like or wish to see in this false vision they have of Springfield just gone.  From some of your posts, you could easily be included in that group.

As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like. And it seems like there is a beginning of a recognition that perhaps SPAR Council does not truly represent the interests of Springfield anymore.  And perhaps even that there is truth in the notion that SPAR Council has and does make some businesses not welcomed.

[fsu813]

"...they came to us"

- so they just happened to be in the neighborhood, poking around for a story?


" As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like."

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

Yes, some businesses aren't welcomed.

If done right, i think the car wash will be.

[strider]

FSU813: you do relilze that they are the largest and most effective organization in the neighborhood, right? that much is indisputable. And btw, i've heard that though membership is down from previous years (before all this in-fighting), it's up of late. So if they don't represent, then who does?

I would say that your statement is really not very accurate.  Perhaps they are still the largest as far as basic membership, though, without an accurate number, they could be down below other groups in size.   The real issue is that I think SPAR Council has steadily been dropping in stature these last couple of years. Louise did not do herself any favors when she failed to really answer the question of how many members SPAR Council had.  To start with, it is not, or at least should not be confidential information. And two, by simply referring to the 100 ish names on the petition, she pretty much said that there were less than 100 ish members as she chose to use the petition rather than a real number. So, even if the membership is "up", it is a far cry from what it once was and it is low enough to pretty much guarantee that SPAR Council can not be considered to represent the entire community of Springfield anymore.

As far as being the most effective?  Far from it and always has been.  Look to the Woman’s Club/ SIA to fit that bill.  HSCC was far more effective in it’s day and much of the hard work was done not by the current crop of SPAR Council board members, rather it was done by their predecessors.  So, no, I do not think it is “indisputable”.  Even if it were somehow true three years ago, it is far from true today. 

Today’s meeting showed us that SPAR Councils influence is waning and  the influence of MetroJacksonville is climbing.  Look for one of the other groups to soon step up to the plate and take over  the vacuum SPAR Council is leaving behind.

[strider]

"...they came to us"

- so they just happened to be in the neighborhood, poking around for a story?

Yep.  Or rather they poked around various sites and places, saw a potential story and then came to see us. Louise had her chance to convince them of her side and perhaps did in one of three stories.

" As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like."

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

Yes, some businesses aren't welcomed.

If done right, i think the car wash will be.

Neither of us can truly say that the community did or did not get it’s way.  The community as represented by one group lead by SPAR Council and another group “lead” by the owner of the potential car wash got to present their opinions on a business that requires an exception to open and after the evidence was weighed, it was decided that there were fewer valid reasons against than for and so the exception was granted.  Seems like the system worked.  I would have had to have said pretty much the same thing if it had gone the other way.  In fact, I thought it was going too, but I was pleasantly surprised that we got the result we did.   The BS was ignored for the most part and the real issue dealt with.

As to those names on the petition, I guess I would have to see the petition and see what and how the info had been presented before I said that 98 residents didn’t get what they wanted today.  Sorry, but SPAR Council’s past history with  petitions and giving correct information is not very good.

The bottom line is that SPAR Council made a well organized attempt at blocking a business they do not like and failed. And the Main Street corridor got another new business that it needs so badly. A valid and positive business that can do nothing but enhance the commercial area.  This ruling and hopefully the ones to follow will go a long way to reduce the current issues, whether you feel they are real or just perceived, that make Main Street seem undesirable to many. 

[cindi]

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

so there are only 157 people in springfield?

[CS Foltz]

Or only 157 interested enough to give an opinion! SPAR represents it vast numbers of members huh?

[uptowngirl]

Sheclown,

you do relilze that they are the largest and most effective organization in the neighborhood, right? that much is indisputable.

I was going to stay out of this one- but this is just wrong, anyone who has been around the neighborhood long enough, and has seen what has been accomplished in the last five years would know this is just wrong. The statement above is justification to NOT entertain this meeting. It is so very biased.  I could give you a list of items SPAR has effectively done to HURT our neighborhood some of which has been effectively swept under the carpet (perhaps that is the effectiveness to which you speak?), but I gave up on them over a year ago and happily work with and/or cheer on truly effective groups in our neighborhood. Sorry, but I have to call BS on that statement.

[fsu813]

"Neither of us can truly say that the community did or did not get it’s way."

- those that cared enough to sign thier name or show up did not. what other way would you measured it?

"past history with petitions and giving correct information is not very good"

- i've stated before that i have a copy of that petition in question in my email and i'd be happy to share it with anyone that's interetsed. BUT......that would dispell your conspiracy theory, so naturally noone asked to see it. Like always, as long as it sounds damning it doesn't have to be accurate.

"I have to call BS on that statement."

- anyone who cared to show up to the last Board meeting would know how members there are. Yes, they are the largest, and have well over 100. That's not BS. Clearly shown by the signatures as well.

I suppose "effective" is up to the eye of the beholder. I know other orgs are/have done great things too. This isn't a competition. For example, 3 projects in the works now: Main St improvements, major Park renovations, Main St Business enhancements wouldn't be happening or wouldn't be in the stage that they are now without thier them.

Arguing about this is not appealing. But....yet again I am (ha).

[PorchCats]

- anyone who cared to show up to the last Board meeting would know how members there are. Yes, they are the largest, and have well over 100. That's not BS. Clearly shown by the signatures as well.

The signatures on the petition have no correlation to SPAR membership. I had a neighbor (an active supporter and member of SPAR) stop by my house with said petition one evening this past week, asking me to sign. He was going door to door, not necessarily seeking out SPAR members (as I am not.) At the beginning of the conversation I was told we needed to sign the petition to stop yet another convenience store coming into the neighborhood. I thought that clearly misleading - I already knew the exception was for the car wash, not the convenience store - and made that clear.  So - I question how many people who signed that petition actually knew what they were signing for. And clearly, signatures weren't limited to SPAR members.

[Dan B]

"...they came to us"

- so they just happened to be in the neighborhood, poking around for a story?


" As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like."

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

Yes, some businesses aren't welcomed.

If done right, i think the car wash will be.

This logic is freaking ridiculous. So because you guys ran around scaring people into signing a petition to keep away the big bad boogie man, and failed, you are insulted that they didnt abide by your opinion.

Lets clear this up, once and for all. First, SPAR was wrong. A Car wash IS a permissible use under the overlay, if the owner applies for an exception. ITS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED! There is a whole list of uses under the overlay that are expressly prohibited. Car wash is not one of them.

Second, its bullshit that you guys went running around scaring people about another "convenience store". The guy never even wanted a freaking store. He only decided to put one in, because he thought it would make the use more permissible. He never had any interest in selling booze, or cigs. He just wants to open.

The irony being, if he wanted to give up on his car wash, he could open a convenience store, without even applying for an exception. Did any one of the brain trust at SPAR even realize that?

SPAR screwed the pooch on this by not stepping up, and trying to push for site improvements. Now, Silas KNOWS that SPAR has it out for him, and could give a crap less what the organization wants. SPAR has neutralized itself in EVER asking Silas to support a neighborhood event, or make any changes that MIGHT actually improve the area around it. Silas can slam the door right in your faces. Did you ever think about that?

How about a little freaking diplomacy.

I am NOT a fan of the tactics used by SPARs detractors, but your guys have proven that your more interested in power plays, than improving the community. I always suspected it, but I thought (perhaps hoped) that it was simple dysfunction, rather than diplomatic incompetence.

But hey, at least you have 2 "AA"s on the board. Congrats on that. That should exonerate you from ANY claims of racism in the future.

All in all, nice work, and way to cry over your spilled milk (But, but, but, but we had more signatures!) Amazing.

[Springfield Girl]

I personally obtained all but 13 of the signatures. I did it in 2 days so it was limited to how many people I could find at home. I have no idea how many were SPAR members and how many were not, it didn't matter. We are a neighborhood of individuals and this had nothing to do with any organization. I find it insulting when anyone claims that any person is a mouthpiece for an organization rather than a concerned resident of the neighborhood. I took the copy of the planning departments report and the letter from the chairman of HPC with me when I was collecting signatures. I let people know that there were supporters on both sides and that there were petitions circling both pro and con. Out of my 105 signatures, 98 were homeowners in Springfield and 28 of those homeowners live within two blocks of the carwash. I had everyone sign their names and include their address and phone number or email so everyone I talked to could see who was supporting this. 13 residents of Springfield took 5 hours out of their day to attend the hearing and speak in opposition to the exception.
The supporting side had a petition with 59 signatures collected over the internet since November.
The speakers who spoke in support included the manager of the Alcoholic Center on 4th St., both owners of the Thrift Store and Home away from Home on Pearl St., Stephen Dare, The Paster of a church near the carwash that I have never seen at a neighborhood event in the 9 years I lived here (all non residents BTW) and the grand total of three residents, so I think the argument about a few speaking for many is a moot point right now.

[Springfield Girl]

"...they came to us"

- so they just happened to be in the neighborhood, poking around for a story?


" As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like."

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

Yes, some businesses aren't welcomed.

If done right, i think the car wash will be.

This logic is freaking ridiculous. So because you guys ran around scaring people into signing a petition to keep away the big bad boogie man, and failed, you are insulted that they didnt abide by your opinion.

Lets clear this up, once and for all. First, SPAR was wrong. A Car wash IS a permissible use under the overlay, if the owner applies for an exception. ITS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED! There is a whole list of uses under the overlay that are expressly prohibited. Car wash is not one of them.

Second, its bullshit that you guys went running around scaring people about another "convenience store". The guy never even wanted a freaking store. He only decided to put one in, because he thought it would make the use more permissible. He never had any interest in selling booze, or cigs. He just wants to open.

The irony being, if he wanted to give up on his car wash, he could open a convenience store, without even applying for an exception. Did any one of the brain trust at SPAR even realize that?

SPAR screwed the pooch on this by not stepping up, and trying to push for site improvements. Now, Silas KNOWS that SPAR has it out for him, and could give a crap less what the organization wants. SPAR has neutralized itself in EVER asking Silas to support a neighborhood event, or make any changes that MIGHT actually improve the area around it. Silas can slam the door right in your faces. Did you ever think about that?

How about a little freaking diplomacy.

I am NOT a fan of the tactics used by SPARs detractors, but your guys have proven that your more interested in power plays, than improving the community. I always suspected it, but I thought (perhaps hoped) that it was simple dysfunction, rather than diplomatic incompetence.

But hey, at least you have 2 "AA"s on the board. Congrats on that. That should exonerate you from ANY claims of racism in the future.

All in all, nice work, and way to cry over your spilled milk (But, but, but, but we had more signatures!) Amazing.

Dan, this was no SPAR conspiracy. It's as simple as some people thinking a carwash is a good thing for the historic district and others who think it isn't. Time will be the judge.

[Dan B]

"...they came to us"

- so they just happened to be in the neighborhood, poking around for a story?


" As we saw at this afternoon’s Planning Commission meeting, there is support for businesses that SPAR Council does not like."

-  102 sigs against, 98 in the 'hood. 59 for. 13 speakers against. 7 for.

(i think)

If the commuity got it's way, it wouldn't have passed.

Yes, some businesses aren't welcomed.

If done right, i think the car wash will be.

This logic is freaking ridiculous. So because you guys ran around scaring people into signing a petition to keep away the big bad boogie man, and failed, you are insulted that they didnt abide by your opinion.

Lets clear this up, once and for all. First, SPAR was wrong. A Car wash IS a permissible use under the overlay, if the owner applies for an exception. ITS SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED! There is a whole list of uses under the overlay that are expressly prohibited. Car wash is not one of them.

Second, its bullshit that you guys went running around scaring people about another "convenience store". The guy never even wanted a freaking store. He only decided to put one in, because he thought it would make the use more permissible. He never had any interest in selling booze, or cigs. He just wants to open.

The irony being, if he wanted to give up on his car wash, he could open a convenience store, without even applying for an exception. Did any one of the brain trust at SPAR even realize that?

SPAR screwed the pooch on this by not stepping up, and trying to push for site improvements. Now, Silas KNOWS that SPAR has it out for him, and could give a crap less what the organization wants. SPAR has neutralized itself in EVER asking Silas to support a neighborhood event, or make any changes that MIGHT actually improve the area around it. Silas can slam the door right in your faces. Did you ever think about that?

How about a little freaking diplomacy.

I am NOT a fan of the tactics used by SPARs detractors, but your guys have proven that your more interested in power plays, than improving the community. I always suspected it, but I thought (perhaps hoped) that it was simple dysfunction, rather than diplomatic incompetence.

But hey, at least you have 2 "AA"s on the board. Congrats on that. That should exonerate you from ANY claims of racism in the future.

All in all, nice work, and way to cry over your spilled milk (But, but, but, but we had more signatures!) Amazing.

Dan, this was no SPAR conspiracy. It's as simple as some people thinking a carwash is a good thing for the historic district and others who think it isn't. Time will be the judge.

I never said conspiracy, I think its more along the lines of complete and udder lack of diplomacy, and willingness to work with anything that isn't a quaint little coffee shop/wine bar.

Guys, Main Street is dead, and without prospect for commercial construction, why not help make this type of business better? While your at it, go ask Rich Trendel what the prospects of the property owner getting money from the banks for a commercial project are, if your so worried about a business owners fiscal viability on a Main St project...

My point it, why not put yourselves in a position of power, buy helping Silas, and guiding him to doing something good?