City Restrictions and Citizens are going to CLASH

[mtraininjax]

I have a great house my partners and I renovated on Dellwood. We took an old dump that no one could see from the street and rebuilt it from the ground up. We saved the house. In order to get insurance, from the leading insurer in the state, Citizens, we had to cover up the exposed brick piers in the back of the house, with a permanent structure. So we used the same beams that were used, real wood, that we used to fix the wooden beams. They extend the look of the house down to the ground.

So the City comes back and says that we need to leave it open or use lattice, a non-permanent structure, according to Citizens. So here we are, improving the neighborhood, and having fixed a dilapidated old house, only to learn that the City, at the 13th hour, months after we finished, has an issue with something that Citizens says we have to have, in order to keep insurance on the property.

I'm all for keeping the same look outside, we fixed the porch to match the period look using real wood and fixed the bricks in the front. Enough is enough from the City.   

[lindab]

Howdy, neighbor.  We too live on Dellwood and have had this same type of problem several times.  Have you taken the insurance papers and gone to the City building/zoning department or wherever and filed an appeal? This certainly is irritating but generally it can be worked out.

[mtraininjax]

Lindab - Have meeting with City Historical group, their inspector, my licensed contractor, Citizens rep for the 20th. I am going to take pictures of the structure, provide to RAP and get them involved as well. The look is better now than it was when we took it over. Improving the structure, to save it, should be considered by the City Historical people.

If the City mandates what we need to do, we will appeal. Thanks!

[puff_momma]

Sounds like you do good work.  You out for hire? 

Can the crawl space still breath?  I'm thinking Citizen's is the goof.  If they've asked you to close off the crawl space, they are inviting all sorts of moisture issues, which will cause decay to your foundation.  It will also make your crawl space more hospitable to termites too.  These are serious long-term threats.

I am thinking, from the minimal info, that Citizens wants your house to approximate slab construction -- something they are more familiar with in the FL market.  Are they concerned that a strong wind will whip under the house and take her away, Wizard of Oz style?

[Dog Walker]

  Are they concerned that a strong wind will whip under the house and take her away, Wizard of Oz style?

That's exactly what they are worried about.  It happens.  Storm surges, for those houses in the zone where they occur, are also lifted off their foundations by the water. 

Most of our old houses are still standing because they are off-grade, balloon framed houses that breath and don't hold moisture.  If you don't have dry wall and house wrap, you don't have mold problems.  Mildew on your shoes, yes, but no black mold on the walls.  Seal the crawl space and you WILL create problems inside your house.

[mtraininjax]

I should post the pictures I have, my contractor is state licensed and "in good standing", so he does not want to get sued. There are the vents in the front, the old look of brick, as well as the vent, for crawl space access in the back.

Citizens, right or wrong, states they want a "permanent structure" to keep kids and trash from accumulating below the house. Why? Well, we all know that government is a creature of habit and surely somewhere along the way, Citizens had a claim because trash caught on fire under a house or a child was hurt because they played in a crawl space that was not sealed.

So naturally we all suffer now. No mold, no mildew, and thankfully, no claims.

[Kay]

I've got really nice lattice around my crawl space--custom made.  It makes no sense to permanently enclose the bottom of an off-grade house.  These houses were built to last because they breathe and are off-grade.

Where on Dellwood is your property?  I live on that street as well.

[Dog Walker]

Mtrain, why are you dealing with Citizens, anyway?  Other less expensive and restrictive insurance companies will cover houses in this area.  I even get a $250/year discount because my house has a pyramidal roof that is more resistant to windstorms.  It is a 1910, balloon-framed, American foursquare too.

I thought Citizens was for people in the coastal zone who couldn't get insurance from anyone else.

[ChriswUfGator]

+1

Citizens sucks. Why are you dealing with them in the first place?

Who's your auto carrier? See if they write homeowners, you can usually get a pretty sweet multi-line discount.

[Overstreet]

Closed in crawl spaces often look better in the neighborhood. It provides security to the crawl space. It keeps the critters out. Unless you need to have a place for the dogs and chickens to live.  Which might not qualify for Urban living.

You will need to vent it for air.  It needs "vents" for water if in a flood zone.  There are some flood vents that are loovers for air that rotate out of the way to allow free flow of flood waters. The city will allow vents if sized properly.

I'd use non-wood enclosures where ever you can. At least pressure treated wood. There is no sense to put a termite bridge from dirt to house.

[AmyLynne]

Mtrain, why are you dealing with Citizens, anyway?  Other less expensive and restrictive insurance companies will cover houses in this area.  I even get a $250/year discount because my house has a pyramidal roof that is more resistant to windstorms.  It is a 1910, balloon-framed, American foursquare too.

I thought Citizens was for people in the coastal zone who couldn't get insurance from anyone else.

I am having a hard time finding homeowners too. What company do you use?

[Dog Walker]

I know that this is the age of "eliminate the middleman", but I have found that independent insurance agents, especially those who are granted underwriting authority by the insurance companies are worth their fees.  Find a good one, ask if he/she has underwriting authority with any company and explain your issues.  Shop around with them since they represent different companies.  They are in the position to solve your problems.