State Rd 9B

[stjr]

I went back to a few Times Union archived articles on 9B (1997 is the furthest back they seem to make available) and found the following interesting tidbits:

1) Another politically connected player showed up in 2004 with Gate's purchase of land near 9B.

2) It appears that anything regarding 9B south of I-95 wasn't even conceived of until 1997 so, certainly, none of this could be related to justifying a fix for I-95/I-295.

3) No surprise, future mass transit corridor accommodations are nonexistent.

4) Scott Clem, a current JTA manager, apparently didn't mind dinging Jax while working previously for St. Johns County.  He just made the point that all transportation comes down to politics, not the common good.  Again, no surprise here.

[1-23-2004]
The state Department of Transportation on Thursday kicked off a study that will pick a St. Johns County route for Florida 9B, the $206 million highway that will give Julington Creek residents a faster connection to Interstate 95...

...Clem said the county wants to see construction of Florida 9B start sooner and will try to obtain right of way for the Race Track Road relocation to hasten the process. Most of that part of northern St. Johns County is undeveloped land that's in the Cummer Trust. Last week, Gate Petroleum Co. announced it has contracted to buy the 5,460-acre tract.

Gate Petroleum's move to buy the land is the latest large-scale real estate transaction in northern St. Johns County. Florida 9B will help handle the increased traffic, said Ed Lehman, director of growth management at the Northeast Florida Regional Planning Council.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012304/met_14616154.shtml

[5-17-1997]
Now Commissioner Pal Howell has asked the state to use that money in his northwest county district to buy the land for his road plan, which advocates extending the proposed Florida 9B highway from its suggested end point at Interstate 95 all the way south to Race Track Road.

Howell made the request May 9 in a letter to Ken Morefield, the DOT's district secretary, even though he admits it is a long shot.

Florida 9B will run from the Interstate 295/Interstate 95 merger south to U.S. 1, then connect to I-95 just south of Bayard when it is done sometime in the next decade. Howell wants the state to extend that highway eight-tenths-of-a-mile farther south and hook up to Race Track Road to give his constituents access to the interstate.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/051797/BBB___A1.html

[5-26-2006] David Anderson, project engineer, said DOT's consultant, HNTB Corp. of Jacksonville, offered 24 separate corridor options but later narrowed it to six....

...One interested browser, Louise Thrower of Fruit Cove, said she didn't see any provisions for mass transit.

"I want to know where their monorail and mass transit lanes are," she said.

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052606/nes_21960293.shtml

[4-9-2003]
A political tug-of-war has developed among four Northeast Florida counties over who can form metropolitan planning organizations, which control thousands of highway dollars and make key recommendations on projects that affect motorists every day.

Jacksonville has its own organization that encompasses parts of Clay and St. Johns counties but wants to expand to include all of St. Johns.

However, St. Johns officials want to go on their own, saying they would have more control over transportation projects and get more money for such projects with their own organization. They say they'll never get a fair shake from the existing First Coast Metropolitan Planning Organization because its staff members are also Jacksonville city employees.

"I find it hard to believe that they can be totally impartial when their boss is the [Jacksonville] mayor," said Scott Clem, director of growth management services for St. Johns County.[/b]

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/040903/met_planning.shtml

[reednavy]

Gate is connected somehow, I'm shocked!






Not really

[British Shoe Company]

So what if Gate wanted to purchase 35,000 acres between Jax. and St. Aug.  If you had the money, you would want to make investments too.   An investment was made.   If you do not like Gate, shop at Kangaroo.  The gas at Kangaroo is liberal.  The gas at Gate is conservative.  If people get angry with Metro Jax., and the opinions people have, get help at Charter.  If you don't get help there, get help somewhere.

[British Shoe Company]

A JTA to St. Aug. round trip bus route makes since too. 4 times a day sounds about right.  Maybe more or less, depending on the need.  We still need 9B.  A bus route will not solve future infrastructure needs of Northeast Florida.  What would Mr. Flagler do.  He would build a train.  woops, he did.  "Are people shocked, or not really" still w/ Mr. Flagler. 

[reednavy]

Liberal and conservative gas stations. Wow, you really are a dumbass troll.

[stjr]

As to British Shoe, he/she seems to be here just to rile us up.  Hard to take seriously.  I've seen this type of poster on other boards.  They just crave attention and will say anything outrageous to get it.[/b]

Reednavy, I would like to repeat my previous advice regarding British Shoe.  I think it is becoming more apparent with every post he/she makes, that I pegged this poster correctly.  Other than to suggest other posters stay clear of responding, I wouldn't pay the aptly titled "BS" any more heed.

The gas at Kangaroo is liberal.  The gas at Gate is conservative.  If people get angry with Metro Jax., and the opinions people have, get help at Charter.  If you don't get help there, get help somewhere.

Perhaps some of us should follow the advice we dispense to others. 

[British Shoe Company]

Are yall Mr. Wrestling #1, and #2?  I think you are intitled to your opinions, and I was trying to add a little humer with the  Kangaroo statement.  In fact it is really a French owned  company.  I do not shop at Citco.  I hope you guys do not drive 50 miles to fill up on Hugo's gas!

[British Shoe Company]

Liberal and conservative gas stations. Wow, you really are a dumbass troll.

[British Shoe Company]

Gate is connected somehow, I'm shocked!






Not really

[British Shoe Company]

reed bible talkl, gibberish or otherwise is just as good as any other talk, gibberish or otherwise.  It doesnt break the rules of our forums anywhere near the incivility of telling people to shut up, or demean their religion.

[British Shoe Company]

reednavy, and stjr, I am sure you are both good people.  I know Mr. Wrestling #1, and Mr. Wrestling #2, and you two are not them.

NACHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[British Shoe Company]

again, I think it is valuable to have different viewpoints/opinions on this site.

We never said it wasn't valuable, it's jsut that if you have half a brain, you'll realize how useless 9B is.

[British Shoe Company]

"incivility of telling people to shut up, or demean their religion."

That includes name calling.  This is not fantasy football!

[Ocklawaha]

A JTA to St. Aug. round trip bus route makes since too. 4 times a day sounds about right.  Maybe more or less, depending on the need.  We still need 9B.  A bus route will not solve future infrastructure needs of Northeast Florida.  What would Mr. Flagler do.  He would build a train.  woops, he did.  "Are people shocked, or not really" still w/ Mr. Flagler. 

Flagler didn't build a railroad from Jacksonville to St. Augustine, or from Tocoi to St. Augustine, or from Jacksonville to Pablo Beach and Mayport, or from St. Augustine to Palatka... He simply bought them and widened them to standard gauge and upgraded the roadbeds. Fact is, had they not tried to sucker him into over charges, he probably would have never considered the railroad business.

Your 4 bus plan, would hardly make a dent and as labor is 75% of transit cost, you would do better with more frequency's, as in 8 hour days x 2. It doesn't need to be JTA, it should be Sunshine Bus, which is St. Johns County/St. Augustines own national news grabbing transit of excellence! They interchange with JTA at both Ponte Vedra and the Avenues. However since we agree that traffic is a problem for St. Johns residents, consider the Rail Diesel Car or RDC. Dallas has a fleet of them completely rebuilt, they have even offered to send a few to us so we can try them out! (Don't ask, but a small bird told me that). An RDC is completely self contained, a one car train, bigger then a city bus, able to run in multiples and doesn't stop at traffic lights or back up when there is a wreck on 95. (SEE PHOTO)

9B is not necessary, mass transit is. JTA buses do not go into St. Johns County at all, and that's likely part of the problem. St. johns County has ZERO mass transit options, and building another highway is not the answer. You have a perfectly fine and easily accessible railroad track adjacent to main road in the county that can be utilized.

The way the communities in the northern part of St. Johns and southern Duval are built or spread far apart to not even utilize connectivity. BPB is NOT an example of connectivity in action. I've said it before and will say it again, connectivity via a street grid can do wonders.

Take Oklahoma City for example. They have a perfect grid pattern, and to travel from Norman to downtown OKC using city streets alone takes only about 45 minutes for a 20 mile trip, roughly the same distance from most locations in northern St. Johns to downtown Jacksonville. Part of the problem though is our greatest asset, the river.

So right about the railroad AND San Jose, from my perch in WGV, that track looks sweeter every time I cross it! Use it? You bet I would, sign me up for a lifetime pass.

A lot of folks on here are complaining about the construction of a street grid, since it's in the pine woods, it's all sprawl. With Bartram, Nocatee, Flagler, World Golf, and a dozen more communities, is it any wonder that new four lane roads are being put down everywhere. Even 16 is being 4 laned, and the intersection of 13 and 16 is about to get the same treatment. You are right about the river being a big part of the problem, neither 16 nor 16A runs direct from St. Augustine to the Shands Bridge, due to TROUT CREEK! So the roads either twist north of the creek or south. The same things happen with the San Sebastian, 6 mile creek, Julington Creek etc... This isn't Oklahoma anymore TOTO! (Pssst the creeks have WATER in them!)

I understand you are the weather guy? If so, did you have to attend that horrible school down in Norman? Poor thing, I'm hear by extending my hand of friendship and sympathy, whilst wearing my Orange and Black TEE! GO POKES! It's Bedlam, I knew you'd understand.



Still a lot to see, if you know where to look!

Oklahoma City does have a great road and highway system, but the original alignment's followed the Oklahoma Electric Railway. Ever eat at Interurban Grill in Norman? Yeah, THAT railroad, Norman-OKC-Guthrie, as well as OKC-Yukon-El Reno, plus about 15 local lines downtown, Classen (follow the high tension poles), Penn, even some track left along the Union Pacific north of the old car barns north of Stockyards off Reno. There was an electric freight bypass from there to 39Th st. where it headed west to Yukon. The Interurban station is still standing in Yukon, next to the little rail museum.

More interesting for the BONE HEADED Jacksonville BRT planners, is this fact, when OKC shifted from Electric Railway, to the most modern bus system in the Southwest, ridership fell by 97%. NO KIDDING

OCKLAWAHA

[civil42806]

So what if Gate wanted to purchase 35,000 acres between Jax. and St. Aug.  If you had the money, you would want to make investments too.   An investment was made.   If you do not like Gate, shop at Kangaroo.  The gas at Kangaroo is liberal.  The gas at Gate is conservative.  If people get angry with Metro Jax., and the opinions people have, get help at Charter.  If you don't get help there, get help somewhere.

good lord what a fool