State Rd 9B

[thelakelander]

Guys, lets keep these debates civil.  No personal insults or name calling needed.  If British Shoe Company likes 9B and sprawl, that's his right.

[British Shoe Company]

A JTA to St. Aug. round trip bus route makes since too. 4 times a day sounds about right.  Maybe more or less, depending on the need.  We still need 9B.  A bus route will not solve future infrastructure needs of Northeast Florida.  What would Mr. Flagler do.  He would build a train.  woops, he did.  "Are people shocked, or not really" still w/ Mr. Flagler. 

Flagler didn't build a railroad from Jacksonville to St. Augustine, or from Tocoi to St. Augustine, or from Jacksonville to Pablo Beach and Mayport, or from St. Augustine to Palatka... He simply bought them and widened them to standard gauge and upgraded the roadbeds. Fact is, had they not tried to sucker him into over charges, he probably would have never considered the railroad business.

Your 4 bus plan, would hardly make a dent and as labor is 75% of transit cost, you would do better with more frequency's, as in 8 hour days x 2. It doesn't need to be JTA, it should be Sunshine Bus, which is St. Johns County/St. Augustines own national news grabbing transit of excellence! They interchange with JTA at both Ponte Vedra and the Avenues. However since we agree that traffic is a problem for St. Johns residents, consider the Rail Diesel Car or RDC. Dallas has a fleet of them completely rebuilt, they have even offered to send a few to us so we can try them out! (Don't ask, but a small bird told me that). An RDC is completely self contained, a one car train, bigger then a city bus, able to run in multiples and doesn't stop at traffic lights or back up when there is a wreck on 95. (SEE PHOTO)

9B is not necessary, mass transit is. JTA buses do not go into St. Johns County at all, and that's likely part of the problem. St. johns County has ZERO mass transit options, and building another highway is not the answer. You have a perfectly fine and easily accessible railroad track adjacent to main road in the county that can be utilized.

The way the communities in the northern part of St. Johns and southern Duval are built or spread far apart to not even utilize connectivity. BPB is NOT an example of connectivity in action. I've said it before and will say it again, connectivity via a street grid can do wonders.

Take Oklahoma City for example. They have a perfect grid pattern, and to travel from Norman to downtown OKC using city streets alone takes only about 45 minutes for a 20 mile trip, roughly the same distance from most locations in northern St. Johns to downtown Jacksonville. Part of the problem though is our greatest asset, the river.

So right about the railroad AND San Jose, from my perch in WGV, that track looks sweeter every time I cross it! Use it? You bet I would, sign me up for a lifetime pass.

A lot of folks on here are complaining about the construction of a street grid, since it's in the pine woods, it's all sprawl. With Bartram, Nocatee, Flagler, World Golf, and a dozen more communities, is it any wonder that new four lane roads are being put down everywhere. Even 16 is being 4 laned, and the intersection of 13 and 16 is about to get the same treatment. You are right about the river being a big part of the problem, neither 16 nor 16A runs direct from St. Augustine to the Shands Bridge, due to TROUT CREEK! So the roads either twist north of the creek or south. The same things happen with the San Sebastian, 6 mile creek, Julington Creek etc... This isn't Oklahoma anymore TOTO! (Pssst the creeks have WATER in them!)

I understand you are the weather guy? If so, did you have to attend that horrible school down in Norman? Poor thing, I'm hear by extending my hand of friendship and sympathy, whilst wearing my Orange and Black TEE! GO POKES! It's Bedlam, I knew you'd understand.



Still a lot to see, if you know where to look!

Oklahoma City does have a great road and highway system, but the original alignment's followed the Oklahoma Electric Railway. Ever eat at Interurban Grill in Norman? Yeah, THAT railroad, Norman-OKC-Guthrie, as well as OKC-Yukon-El Reno, plus about 15 local lines downtown, Classen (follow the high tension poles), Penn, even some track left along the Union Pacific north of the old car barns north of Stockyards off Reno. There was an electric freight bypass from there to 39Th st. where it headed west to Yukon. The Interurban station is still standing in Yukon, next to the little rail museum.

More interesting for the BONE HEADED Jacksonville BRT planners, is this fact, when OKC shifted from Electric Railway, to the most modern bus system in the Southwest, ridership fell by 97%. NO KIDDING

OCKLAWAHA

[British Shoe Company]

I will respect others opinions.   I will not be peer/stranger pressued in to changing mind about 9B.  I think that you folks against 9B need to either accept 9B, or take your time, which would be better spent anonymously shooting out insults, and go before the county commissioners, and voice your objections.

As Archie Bunker would say. "Good night nurse"

[British Shoe Company]

Will it benefit congestion?

When will construction begin?

[British Shoe Company]

I believe it will help congestion. 

Does anybody know when construction will start? 

Has bidding for the project been done?

If so, who will do the job?

How much Federal funding will the project get?

[reednavy]

It will help congestion, for a few years, then devlopers will come in and take that away.

Construction is still well over a year away.

Bids? Blueprints haven't even been completed for the project, so bidding is still months away, likely next spring.

Federal funding? They're(FDOT) using leftover Stimulus dollars to build the project. Which, IMO, is a waste of funds. 9B was not, or at least shouldn't have been a high priority project.

[British Shoe Company]

It's better to take the Federal Funds, than to give them back.  Florida needs the Federal money.  It is money better spent in Florida than that bridge in ALASKA serving hundreds of people!

I hope I spelled everything to your satisfaction.

 

[thelakelander]

I doubt 9B achieves much, other than creating visual access to undeveloped land.  Congestion isn't that bad to warrant the construction of a short expressway that runs parallel to an existing facility that could be easily widened if needed.  Looking across the region, if congestion were really an issue, there are a lot of gridlocked highways in the First Coast that should be a higher priority.

In any event, be leery of "free" federal money.  That's how we got the skyway and its been a blood sucker ever since with no end of increasing ridership or turning its profitability around in sight anytime soon.

[reednavy]

They should've used the funds to go to a new Shands Bridge, one that is wider, has shoulders, and higher. The higher part because that'd open up the Port of Palatka for much more business.

[stjr]

I doubt 9B achieves much, other than creating visual access to undeveloped land.  Congestion isn't that bad to warrant the construction of a short expressway that runs parallel to an existing facility that could be easily widened if needed.  Looking across the region, if congestion were really an issue, there are a lot of gridlocked highways in the First Coast that should be a higher priority.

In any event, be leery of "free" federal money.  That's how we got the skyway and its been a blood sucker ever since with no end of increasing ridership or turning its profitability around in sight anytime soon.

Here, here!  Lake.  Tally ho!  Perfectly said across the board.

They should've used the funds to go to a new Shands Bridge, one that is wider, has shoulders, and higher. The higher part because that'd open up the Port of Palatka for much more business.

Or, toward street cars, commuter rail, and/or bus shelters!  Anything but 9B.

[reednavy]

I was thinking, this will be a traffic clusterf*ck right away.

The portion where 9B merges into 9A, unless they add another lane all the way to JTB, forget about it. That will be a traffic backup every morning as people try to merge and speed up. People in this town can't merge or use a turn signal to save their lives, so you dang well know 9A & 9B junction is going to be a madhouse.

[Jason]

Based on my experience with the intersection of I95/I295/9A, there is very little traffic that uses 9A east from south of town.  I'd say that 80-90% of the northbound traffic (SJC residents) all head straight up I95 into town.

Once 9B is connected to Racetrack Road there may be a shift but until then I wouldn't expect 9B to carry much traffic at all.  Hell, I'd go so far as to say that once the Racetrack road connection is made the vast majority of the traffic will still head north on I95 to the Southpoint area (via JTB) or to downtown.

[seadog]

9-B is to support the west side of Nocatee, connect to the thru route of the toll road, access Durbin Crossing, Rivertown. etal, when all the highway const. maps are connected it makes sense.
Vision 50 years, not next week !

[JeffreyS]

I sure am glad we let developers like those at Nacotee we will speend billions on their sprawl.

[Ocklawaha]

The answer to the question is 8,000 containers +/- a couple.

It's all about the port, that's why it's not even really SR 9B, it's I-795. While I agree that the whole roadway is not needed now, if the container business perks to the point where we match the projections, as many as 3 MILLION per year, we are in deep poop. I-795 won't save us, but it might be a bandage. More lanes from the Broward Bridge, to I-95 in both directions will be needed quickly if, again IF, IF, IF, the plan plays out. Keeping in mind Miami, has had to turn whore to keep Maersk Line from skipping town. It's no secret that this sea going giant ( http://www.maersklinelimited.com/ ) is VERY unhappy with it's South Florida dockage, and that 300+ mile trip north just to clear containers from Florida probably doesn't help the South Florida port outlook either. Y'all know how much I love highways, so believe me when I say this could go from a future "good problem" IE: jobs, to a sudden "LAND RUSH PROBLEM," if Maersk, does what some pundits predict and move to Jax.

We really do hold the trump cards in this game, Miami, Port Everglades, Port Canaveral, Manatee, or Tampa/Rockport, all have very restrictive transportation problems. Problems so big, BILLION dollar tunnel systems and other wild plans are out there to save them from themselves. Boxed in, long Florida transit time, single railroad access except Miami and Port Everglades, which have dual rail access, but little use. All need major and very expensive infrastructure improvements to compete with our projections, add Maersk, and we are in a league of very few WORLD CITIES. Remember we are not a rent-a-dock port, our new big hitters are building HOME PORTS, they own and operate, which is why the other lines are watching.

So what do we need??

Buy the CSX rail line, former Seaboard from Comodore Point to Yulee.
Rebuild the "S" line. (small change $$)
Lease back the operation to a reformed "Jacksonville Terminal Company" shortline.
open neutral access to all port terminals and some lease backs and/or protections to CSX.
Improve the port expressways with extra lanes, flyovers, and yes, that tiny bit of I-795. I would also consider a 6 - 4 lane extension of Talleyrand, up and across the Trout meeting Zoo Parkway/Hecksher north of Gate. Get off the pot and finally build the old 20Th street expressway, MLK "CORNER," into a proper interchange that dumps the trucks from NW Jax onto Talleyrand.
Lastly on roads, beltline or no, get that Shands bridge out of there, too low and THAT hinders our barge traffic potential, as well as Port Palatka and Port Sanford.
Airport is already ahead of the curve, though I truly believe Cecil, Francis, Imeson, or Lee Field could capture Airship Ventures, Boeing Airship, or Zeppelin Aircraft USA, remember these are STOL aircraft.
Rebuild the Airport/I-95 interchange.

DONE!

WE WIN!

OCKLAWAHA