Store on 8th and Hubbard

[samiam]

The last few weeks i have noticed more and more vagrants hanging around next to the old premier grocery store on Hubbard, The crowd was up to 20 yesterday. I stopped and cleaned the area up earlier today, I picked up all the coda crates that they where using for chairs well as of 30 minutes ago there was no one there. So if any of you drive by there stop and pick up there chairs  

[brainstormer]

The number of homeless/vagrants in downtown and Springfield is getting out of control.  I had a meeting downtown this morning and driving down main at 7:30am is like driving through an obstacle course.  There were upwards of 30-40 people, mostly men, sitting on the curb, planters, benches all along main near the shell station and beyond.  They were crossing in the middle of street, some just hanging out in the street.  Cars were swerving, stepping on their brakes.  It was hot so their shirts were off, backpacks sitting everywhere.  That main street pocket park was getting some use!  Is this seriously how we want people to view our downtown?  I thought I had a pretty high tolerance, but it's starting to really bother me.  This isn't urban living, this is something completely different.  Adam are you reading this?  Help, Please!!!! It was never this bad when I lived downtown less than a year ago.  I live in Springfield now and yesterday morning I walked out the door to find a half naked drunk passed out on the bench.  I've started calling the JSO non-number and they are soon going to know me by name.  This is really beyond ridiculous.

[samiam]

My wife and I have been calling JSO about the 8Th and hubbard corner for about 6 months. What we need is a JSO sub-station on 8Th, Hell I'll supply the coffee and donuts.

[brainstormer]

Right on samiam!  We have lots of empty storefronts that can be reused. 

[fsujax]

This is very tue. The crowds that gather in the morning at Main and Union is getting out of control. They throw their garbage everywhere and are making a mess. What a great entry to Downtown for those of us coming from the north. Something has got to be done about this. Every afternoon the same thing occurs all along Union St near the transit station and the homeless shelters, there are people lying all over the place, leaving all their garbage behind. Please City help do something about this.

[Karl_Pilkington]

There were upwards of 30-40 people, mostly men, sitting on the curb, planters, benches all along main near the shell station and beyond. 

this has been going on forever.  I drive that way every day, for the last 10 years, and its always like that and the city doesn't do anything about it.  Its always full of trash there and there are even guys who stake out the pumps in the event you are unlucky enough to have to get some gas.  The trash situation is out of control, most of it is swept down the storm drain thats right there near the corner, I guess as long as the medians are mowed and there's no trash in Ortega, things are great in Jacksontucky.  Maybe thats why they needed a new stormwater fee to pick all the trash out of the storm drains! because there aren't enough garbage cans around.  Makes sense now.

[zoo]

You'd think the Riverkeeper would have an interest in the downtown vagrant/trash problem -- it all goes into the storm drains and right into the St. Johns. Just another fine example of Jacksonville taking care of its assets.

[fatcat]

it is the mentality of the city management. There is no encouragement /incentive from the city to get for profit business to downtown. It is loaded with homeless services.  Then the homeless come to aggregate at where the service is. Then more homeless service is justified to service them. It is like the wall street of homeless.

IMHO, this is what needs to be done:
1. Discourage downtown homeless service. For example, remove the property tax exemption, raise the garbage and storm water fee. Let's be honest, the homeless service generate more garbage than average household or business and definitely cause more drainage problem.
2. Aggressively recruiting revenue generating business from out of state.
3. Collect the homeless from street and send them to the county/state they are from and bill to the county/ state they are from.

if we do not solve our homeless problem now, all the other states will ship their homeless to us.

[Springfield Girl]

I agree with the above posters, the vagrant problem is out of control downtown. Please, anyone from the city who is reading this, something must be done. We cannot continue to be the homeless welcome wagon we have become. We have all heard and read the stories about homeless persons being sent here or coming here because we are an easy city to be homeless in. To the social service providers, you too need to stop perpetuating the myth that these people are all from Jacksonville. We have all talked to them, read their stories in the TU and Folio, heard their stories relayed by friends on the police force and in health care professions and know that is not the case. Everyone feels for the individuals or families who have become homeless due to loss of jobs or health issues. You are hurting the cause of the truly deserving by continuing to lump the people who are in need of a "hand up" in with criminals, addicts, street people, bums, backpack men or whatever you want to call them. The face of the homeless has changed from families who have fallen through the cracks to lazy drunks hanging out all day, urinating in public and hassling people for money. IMO we need to quit funding organizations that enable this behavior by handing out food and clothing with no real hope of changing the way these people live. We need to take that same funding and spend it on programs that treat addictions and train people to enter the workforce. I know I will get the same old whining that there is not enough money so I will offer what seems to me a few simple solutions.
1) Determine who each individual is. Enable them to get ID, lost birth certificates, social security cards etc. Anyone requesting service must comply with this and allow the information to be passed on to law enforcement. This will enable those wanting help to get back into society and separate the criminals from the rest of the population.
2) Determine where each individual has come from. The social service providers like to tell us that the majority are from Jacksonville but I find that hard to believe. Say for example someone on the street states they have lived in Jacksonville 10 years. Have they been employed or had housing during that time or did they come to Jax from Ohio and been homeless using our services for ten years?
3) After setting guidelines on what residency is, put those who are not from here on a one way bus, train or plane ride to their place of birth. It might sound cold but realistically it is almost impossible to take care of our own city's social problems without carrying the burden of other areas.
4) Do not allow people to "line up" at shelters early in order to get a bed. That makes it almost impossible to work and be back by the 3 o'clock time which is quoted by the street people. If the shelter wants to let people in for dinner fine but people who work or who have looked for a job during the day should have first rights to a bed. Same goes for showers, there should not be set times. If someone needs to be at work before the set shower time how can they be prepared for their job? Right now the way the system is set up people are not incentivised to work. That needs to be changed to reward those who are working or getting the help they need to become self sufficient.
5) People who sleep at a shelter should not be thrown out on the street during the day. There should be help resources and job training available to them. They should have use of phones and computers so they can reconnect with family and work toward getting their lives back on track.
I do not claim to know how to solve this complex problem but I do know that what we are doing now is not working. By using some of the common sense solutions above we might be able to reduce the numbers and concentrate on truly helping some people.

[just_chi]

Well, I find the amazing thing about 'some' of those 'vagrants' is, they are to unsightly to line the vacant lots or parks, but not to unsightly to do 'the odd jobs' at the more blessed individuals in our neighborhood!  (to pitiful to look at, but not so to do your labor?)   Then again, maybe you were just offering a helping hand.

[Omarvelous09]

The number of homeless/vagrants in downtown and Springfield is getting out of control.  I had a meeting downtown this morning and driving down main at 7:30am is like driving through an obstacle course.  There were upwards of 30-40 people, mostly men, sitting on the curb, planters, benches all along main near the shell station and beyond.  They were crossing in the middle of street, some just hanging out in the street.  Cars were swerving, stepping on their brakes.  It was hot so their shirts were off, backpacks sitting everywhere.  That main street pocket park was getting some use!  Is this seriously how we want people to view our downtown?  I thought I had a pretty high tolerance, but it's starting to really bother me.  This isn't urban living, this is something completely different.  Adam are you reading this?  Help, Please!!!! It was never this bad when I lived downtown less than a year ago.  I live in Springfield now and yesterday morning I walked out the door to find a half naked drunk passed out on the bench.  I've started calling the JSO non-number and they are soon going to know me by name.  This is really beyond ridiculous.

Well as far as the guys sitting along Main & Union(Shell station)...they are actually waiting for the day labor vans to pick them up. The owners of the shell station don't want them hanging in the parking lot in the mornings....although the store wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for those guys. Now the half-naked drunk....that's another story !

[BridgeTroll]

Well, I find the amazing thing about 'some' of those 'vagrants' is, they are to unsightly to line the vacant lots or parks, but not to unsightly to do 'the odd jobs' at the more blessed individuals in our neighborhood!  (to pitiful to look at, but not so to do your labor?)   Then again, maybe you were just offering a helping hand.

Welcome to the forum just_chi!  It is a time honored tradition to offer folks out of work with odd jobs in order to help them out.  Many are eager for the opportunity...

[heights unknown]

The number of homeless/vagrants in downtown and Springfield is getting out of control.  I had a meeting downtown this morning and driving down main at 7:30am is like driving through an obstacle course.  There were upwards of 30-40 people, mostly men, sitting on the curb, planters, benches all along main near the shell station and beyond.  They were crossing in the middle of street, some just hanging out in the street.  Cars were swerving, stepping on their brakes.  It was hot so their shirts were off, backpacks sitting everywhere.  That main street pocket park was getting some use!  Is this seriously how we want people to view our downtown?  I thought I had a pretty high tolerance, but it's starting to really bother me.  This isn't urban living, this is something completely different.  Adam are you reading this?  Help, Please!!!! It was never this bad when I lived downtown less than a year ago.  I live in Springfield now and yesterday morning I walked out the door to find a half naked drunk passed out on the bench.  I've started calling the JSO non-number and they are soon going to know me by name.  This is really beyond ridiculous.

I'm an advocate for the homeless, but there has got to be a place where the homeless and needy can go and hang out during the day; if there is not, then the City needs to build such a place. 

Don't blame them 100%, most just don't have no place to go and with the economy the way it is, there is very little day labor to keep them busy, and there certainly are no good places they can hang out.  Would be good if the City had what we have in Bradenton and Sarasota, a kind of "Day Care" (that's what I call it) where they can get a shower, get a locker, hang outside and eat lunch, get their clothes cleaned, get food/clothes, bus passes, and anything else they might need. 

It's not good for them to be hanging out in public anyway with all the killings, bashings, and torturing of the homeless that's going on nationwide.

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

I agree with the above posters, the vagrant problem is out of control downtown. Please, anyone from the city who is reading this, something must be done. We cannot continue to be the homeless welcome wagon we have become. We have all heard and read the stories about homeless persons being sent here or coming here because we are an easy city to be homeless in. To the social service providers, you too need to stop perpetuating the myth that these people are all from Jacksonville. We have all talked to them, read their stories in the TU and Folio, heard their stories relayed by friends on the police force and in health care professions and know that is not the case. Everyone feels for the individuals or families who have become homeless due to loss of jobs or health issues. You are hurting the cause of the truly deserving by continuing to lump the people who are in need of a "hand up" in with criminals, addicts, street people, bums, backpack men or whatever you want to call them. The face of the homeless has changed from families who have fallen through the cracks to lazy drunks hanging out all day, urinating in public and hassling people for money. IMO we need to quit funding organizations that enable this behavior by handing out food and clothing with no real hope of changing the way these people live. We need to take that same funding and spend it on programs that treat addictions and train people to enter the workforce. I know I will get the same old whining that there is not enough money so I will offer what seems to me a few simple solutions.
1) Determine who each individual is. Enable them to get ID, lost birth certificates, social security cards etc. Anyone requesting service must comply with this and allow the information to be passed on to law enforcement. This will enable those wanting help to get back into society and separate the criminals from the rest of the population.
2) Determine where each individual has come from. The social service providers like to tell us that the majority are from Jacksonville but I find that hard to believe. Say for example someone on the street states they have lived in Jacksonville 10 years. Have they been employed or had housing during that time or did they come to Jax from Ohio and been homeless using our services for ten years?
3) After setting guidelines on what residency is, put those who are not from here on a one way bus, train or plane ride to their place of birth. It might sound cold but realistically it is almost impossible to take care of our own city's social problems without carrying the burden of other areas.
4) Do not allow people to "line up" at shelters early in order to get a bed. That makes it almost impossible to work and be back by the 3 o'clock time which is quoted by the street people. If the shelter wants to let people in for dinner fine but people who work or who have looked for a job during the day should have first rights to a bed. Same goes for showers, there should not be set times. If someone needs to be at work before the set shower time how can they be prepared for their job? Right now the way the system is set up people are not insentivised to work. That needs to be changed to reward those who are working or getting the help they need to become self sufficient.
5) People who sleep at a shelter should not be thrown out on the street during the day. There should be help resources and job training available to them. They should have use of phones and computers so they can reconnect with family and work toward getting their lives back on track.
I do not claim to know how to solve this complex problem but I do know that what we are doing now is not working. By using some of the common sense solutions above we might be able to reduce the numbers and concentrate on truly helping some people.

Although your concerns are valid "Springfield Girl," they are only temporary band aids.  The help they need goes much deeper and more intense than just food, clothing, shelter, ID cards, clean clothes, etc.

As an Executive Director of a social agency, I can tell you what is needed if you will privately email, IM, or PM me.

garry_777_2000@yahoo.com, or use the email in this forum to contact me.

Heights Unknown

[cline]

but there has got to be a place where the homeless and needy can go and hang out during the day;

I'm pretty sure Jax already has a few of those places.  We don't need any more.  Its part of the reason we have so many homeless here in the first place.