Pilot e-scooter program in downtown Jacksonville hits some bumps in the road

[Lunican]

I do find it kind of humorous that people get upset with these scooters but don't mind other toys with careless drivers...

[thelakelander]

Nice!

[CityLife]

Miami just voted to end their pilot scooter program.

Miami has put the brakes on motorized scooters, ordering operators to deactivate and pick up their machines immediately. Commissioners voted Thursday to end a multi-year pilot program that allowed several companies to place dockless electric scooters in the city's urban core. Since 2018, riders have been able to use mobile phone apps to rent the scooters. Vendors were told they have until midnight Thursday to deactivate their scooters and until 5 p.m. Friday to pick them up or the city could impound them. "We're shutting it down," said Commissioner Alex Díaz de la Portilla "That's it."

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article255941562.html#storylink=cpy

A woman in Nashville got killed on a Lyft scooter in early October and later that month another woman got pinned under a bus while riding a scooter, but ended up living. My sister saw the second one and said it was horrifying.

Cities that want scooters should start creating protected scooter paths and only allow them to be utilized there. It's absurd that people ride them on streets like Broadway or Biscayne Boulevard.

[Ken_FSU]

A woman in Nashville got killed on a Lyft scooter in early October and later that month another woman got pinned under a bus while riding a scooter, but ended up living. My sister saw the second one and said it was horrifying.

Cities that want scooters should start creating protected scooter paths and only allow them to be utilized there. It's absurd that people ride them on streets like Broadway or Biscayne Boulevard.

Lots and lots of reasons that it's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison (most notably size of service area), but it's not uncommon for Nashville to see 10 bike deaths in some years. Jacksonville has seen up to 8 in recent years. We've seen skateboarders killed in Jacksonville to St. Augustine in recent years. Not to mention the 100+ pedestrians killed each year by traffic. These scooter deaths are horribly tragic, and come with their share of unique causes related to equipment and education, but think it's part of a bigger transportation discussion than just scooters. 

DIA is currently conducting a survey that will help determine whether the scooters stay or leave at the end of the pilot program.

Here's the link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd7vI_o6OhS02Bxvhwpyh_dTSztzRc1eC9TWla-WH7IUC9CgQ/viewform?fbclid=IwAR20upM_wX_wwskE-9A_bIvsP4gpuuCvA1wHS0G1zJLNiDzdArbCNGSpEak

I hope they stay.

They've brought a whole lot of people downtown who wouldn't otherwise be there, and they provide a great mobility solution for getting around the core quickly.

[Adam White]

A woman in Nashville got killed on a Lyft scooter in early October and later that month another woman got pinned under a bus while riding a scooter, but ended up living. My sister saw the second one and said it was horrifying.

Cities that want scooters should start creating protected scooter paths and only allow them to be utilized there. It's absurd that people ride them on streets like Broadway or Biscayne Boulevard.

Lots and lots of reasons that it's not necessarily an apples to apples comparison (most notably size of service area), but it's not uncommon for Nashville to see 10 bike deaths in some years. Jacksonville has seen up to 8 in recent years. We've seen skateboarders killed in Jacksonville to St. Augustine in recent years. Not to mention the 100+ pedestrians killed each year by traffic. These scooter deaths are horribly tragic, and come with their share of unique causes related to equipment and education, but think it's part of a bigger transportation discussion than just scooters. 

DIA is currently conducting a survey that will help determine whether the scooters stay or leave at the end of the pilot program.

Here's the link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd7vI_o6OhS02Bxvhwpyh_dTSztzRc1eC9TWla-WH7IUC9CgQ/viewform?fbclid=IwAR20upM_wX_wwskE-9A_bIvsP4gpuuCvA1wHS0G1zJLNiDzdArbCNGSpEak

I hope they stay.

They've brought a whole lot of people downtown who wouldn't otherwise be there, and they provide a great mobility solution for getting around the core quickly.

Not sure about scooters - they're weird and I don't know what the laws are. But when it comes to bicycles, Jacksonville (and many other cities) really needs to invest in cycling infrastructure. Segregated bike lanes, car-free streets and maybe traffic calming measures. It's scary riding a bike in Jax - even in Riverside. I know FL law actually permits cycling on the sidewalk (which is ludicrous), but sidewalks aren't really that common in Jax anyway!

[marcuscnelson]

I think it's very unfortunate that Miami is dropping their scooters. I guess they still have their Citi Bike system but still, losing options is sad.

I agree with Ken, we should keep them. There's no reason we can't work on investing in complete streets, removing cars in favor of other transportation options, or other improvements that make it safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and non-drivers in general.

[thelakelander]

Definitely a loss for Miami. They appear to have been well used during the times I've been down there this year. South Florida's roadway system is a cluster fuck for the growth and density building taking place there. I don't see how this helps anything there.

[tufsu1]

Poor timing in Miami, as there's a study underway to determine how best to integrate micromobility into the SMART Plan premium transit corridors.

[jaxlongtimer]

Interesting article on CNN about dealing with 14,000 e-scooters in Rome:

E-scooters were supposed to fix travel in Rome. Then they became 'death traps'

Rome (CNN) — Rome, the eternal city, has been invaded, conquered and pillaged countless times since its founding nearly 2,800 years ago. Each attack has left scars throughout the city, from the ruins of the Roman Forum to the cavern of the Circus Maximus where chariots once raced.

Modern degradation has also left citizens angry, fed up with what often feels like complacency in what is arguably one of the most beautiful cities in the world.

The current invasion of the Italian capital comes from e-scooters -- more than 14,000 of them -- modern chariots that block sidewalks, unnerve drivers and kill.

Since rental scooters were introduced three years ago as an alternative to public transportation during the Covid pandemic, four people have been killed while riding them, according to Rome City Hall mobility councilman Eugenio Patane. The city's emergency rooms treat at least one scooter-related major injury every three days, health authorities say.

And yet only 2% (around 270) of the foot scooters for rent are used on a daily basis.

Rome City Hall has given licenses to seven companies responsible for changing batteries, carrying out repairs, moving scooters to high-traffic areas and fishing them out of the city's Tiber River.

It's the scooters that aren't in use that are presenting the greatest challenge, especially to the disabled.

As Giuliano Frittelli, head of the Italian Union for the Blind and Visually Impaired, navigates with his walking stick around a half a dozen scooters littering the sidewalk near his office in the city center, he tells CNN that for people who don't see, they are a death trap.

"The first problem is the wild parking," Frittelli says as he taps his walking stick on the base of a scooter, explaining that their unusual shape also makes it easy for someone with impaired eyesight to trip over them.

He also says that because they are electric, they are silent, which is also a threat to those who cannot see.

"You don't hear them so you cannot navigate around them," Frittelli says, recalling an incident when a scooter passed a blind person so closely their startled seeing-eye dog jumped off the sidewalk, causing what he called "a series of frights" that luckily did not end in physical injury.

Frittelli's group is working with Rome City Hall to make it mandatory that scooters are parked only in designated stalls. He also wants them adapted to produce a noise level of at least 30 decibels so it can serve as a warning of their approach.

He says it is not just disabled people, including those in wheelchairs, who struggle to use the streets when the sidewalks are strewn with scooters. The elderly and parents pushing baby strollers are also affected.

Rome City Hall traffic councilman Eugenio Patanè agrees. He tells CNN that as of January 1, 2023, the city will renew the permission for just 9,000 scooters and reduce the number of companies allowed to rent them to three.

He says that the city also plans to require a percentage of the scooters to be placed in the suburbs and other areas so regular citizens can use them for what he refers to as "the last mile" which could take them from a subway stop to their homes or allow them to run quick errands without jumping in a car.

"They are a danger to the people, but they are also a problem for the city, for the beauty of the city," Patanè says. "The center of the city is a UNESCO heritage site and is very fragile and we have to take care of it."

In early June, two Americans were fined around $800 for throwing rental scooters down the Spanish Steps, causing about $26,000 worth of damage to the fragile marble. The incident was caught on security cameras and by passersby who saw one of the tourists throw the heavy metal scooter, capturing the sound of it crashing into the steps.

The e-scooters are primarily used by tourists and young people, Patanè says.

And the rules are often ignored, especially those that prohibit use on sidewalks and limit riders to one person. Renters are also supposed to be 18 years old. And the city cannot oblige the rental companies to provide helmets, meaning very few people wear them.

Police checks are infrequent and fines are rare for scooter users breaking the basic rules since it is difficult to enforce the no-sidewalk rule when the scooters are generally parked on the sidewalks.

They appear to be a hit with tourists though. "To ride around, especially the historic center where it's almost impossible in a car, this is it," Walter Hughes, from Dallas, Texas told CNN.

"For that [two- or three-mile radius] that you ride fast around, you cannot find a parking spot for a car, it's too hot to walk for five hours, so this is it."

Not everyone agrees.

Taxi drivers who have had to weave through pedestrians and mopeds for years say the e-scooters are a far bigger problem.
Eduardo Conticello has had many near-misses with his taxi and would like to see scooters abolished completely.

He tells CNN that they often stop short in front of him or fall over. "When I see them I drive very, very slowly," he explains, which adds time to his journeys, meaning his passengers pay more because of them. "They are very dangerous."

But life in the eternal city has never been particularly easy in its 2,800 years. Rome wasn't built in a day, as they say. And its problems won't be solved in one either.





https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/rome-scooter-problems/index.html

[Ken_FSU]

Bird declares bankruptcy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/20/electric-scooter-company-bird-files-for-bankruptcy-.html

[thelakelander]

Is Bird one of the scooter companies in downtown?

[Jax_Developer]

Yes, them & Lime.

[marcuscnelson]

I would guess the problem is mainly revenue vs. expenditure. Taking tons of venture capital money early on and then being unable to raise prices high enough to make big returns on that investment. Cities aren't built around scooters the way they are around cars, so outside of certain urban areas and college towns you hit a ceiling on growth.

It isn't immediately clear if the sale of assets means eventually emerging from bankruptcy or seeking an acquisition, but there are plenty of shared micromobility companies out there, so it could go either way.

I think there's absolutely still room to grow (imagine Jacksonville once more of the Emerald Trail is open) but it's very much an issue of these companies getting used to gradual growth and advocating for the needed infrastructure instead of thinking they're all multi-billion-dollar companies.

On a related note, I would love to see JTA pushing for more shared mobility options in more of town beyond just Downtown. Plenty of spots in town where the infrastructure is starting to emerge and would be revenue for them instead of just capital road spending.

[Jax_Developer]

No basis for this statement.. but I wonder if Lime has just taken Bird's market share. Bird was the first, and Lime came in with an Uber partnership. From my personal experience, the Lime bike's are better. When I had a choice, I picked Lime 100% of the time. 

[simms3]

I saw this coming from a mile away...

These scooters came to SF first and pretty much failed there and became a huge problem and nuisance in more ways than one (whether while being used or sitting in heaps around the city unused, often dumped into bodies of water as well).

I was surprised that after failing in a city like SF (while I was still living there, years ago), they came to cities around the country like Jacksonville in more recent years.  Of course this was going to fail.