Another Shooting: San Bernardino California

[BridgeTroll]

Oddly... 4 pages of this thread and no pictures posted of the perpetrators yet.  No wild conjecture of political persuasions.

I've not seen any pictures of the perpetrators in the news. I've seen the brother-in-law or whoever he is and his wife, but not the shooters.

That's really weird Adam... his pictures are all over... how strange

Maybe it has something to do with where I live. The news here is more focused on the fact that Parliament has just voted to start murdering Syrians.

Lol...I'm sure that's it Adam.  But the other day pictures were posted and political motives assigned within hours... it's just strange.

That's not to say I haven't read descriptions of the suspects or perpetrators. I'm given to understand the male was Asian and the female was believed to be either Arab or Asian (but having moved to the USA from Saudi Arabia). Apparently they have or had a 6 month old child.

Wow... now 5 pages in and still... not a single perp photo or over the top speculation of political motives on this forum.  It's just odd that with the Planned Parenthood shooting pix were posted and pages of wild speculation regarding motives dominated the thread...  simply strange...

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25716.0.html

[BridgeTroll]

... this is in reference to firearm registration... it is such a good solution then certainly you should be open to other registration drives... you know cause they got nothing to hide right?

What do you have to hide when you register your automobile?  What are young men hiding when they register for the draft?  Your argument is specious.

Which Article is Freedom to Drive again?  I would support that amendment if it was proposed...

[Adam White]

Oddly... 4 pages of this thread and no pictures posted of the perpetrators yet.  No wild conjecture of political persuasions.

I've not seen any pictures of the perpetrators in the news. I've seen the brother-in-law or whoever he is and his wife, but not the shooters.

That's really weird Adam... his pictures are all over... how strange

Maybe it has something to do with where I live. The news here is more focused on the fact that Parliament has just voted to start murdering Syrians.

Lol...I'm sure that's it Adam.  But the other day pictures were posted and political motives assigned within hours... it's just strange.

That's not to say I haven't read descriptions of the suspects or perpetrators. I'm given to understand the male was Asian and the female was believed to be either Arab or Asian (but having moved to the USA from Saudi Arabia). Apparently they have or had a 6 month old child.

Wow... now 5 pages in and still... not a single perp photo or over the top speculation of political motives on this forum.  It's just odd that with the Planned Parenthood shooting pix were posted and pages of wild speculation regarding motives dominated the thread...  simply strange...

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25716.0.html

Feel free to post a pic and offer an opinion 

If you go back a few pages, you might see where I mentioned it appears to be religious terrorism.

[BridgeTroll]

Oddly... 4 pages of this thread and no pictures posted of the perpetrators yet.  No wild conjecture of political persuasions.

I've not seen any pictures of the perpetrators in the news. I've seen the brother-in-law or whoever he is and his wife, but not the shooters.

That's really weird Adam... his pictures are all over... how strange

Maybe it has something to do with where I live. The news here is more focused on the fact that Parliament has just voted to start murdering Syrians.

Lol...I'm sure that's it Adam.  But the other day pictures were posted and political motives assigned within hours... it's just strange.

That's not to say I haven't read descriptions of the suspects or perpetrators. I'm given to understand the male was Asian and the female was believed to be either Arab or Asian (but having moved to the USA from Saudi Arabia). Apparently they have or had a 6 month old child.

Wow... now 5 pages in and still... not a single perp photo or over the top speculation of political motives on this forum.  It's just odd that with the Planned Parenthood shooting pix were posted and pages of wild speculation regarding motives dominated the thread...  simply strange...

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,25716.0.html

Feel free to post a pic and offer an opinion 

If you go back a few pages, you might see where I mentioned it appears to be religious terrorism.

Thanks Adam... my query/observation is not really directed at you... but the contrast between the two threads is simply amazing...

[acme54321]

shocking isn't it?  It only took ten years for the country to become a daily blood bath after the ban on assualt weapons was ended.

Didn't our gun advocates here on MJ call the rest of us liberal moonbeam idiots for predicting this would happen? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Do you realize that the guns outlawed under the AWB functioned the same as the complaint version of those same guns?  The AWB was nothing more than a feel good measure.  You could still legally buy an AK pattern rifle that would accept a 30 round magazine.  The only the the AWB outlawed that may have some sort of tactical advantage was folding stocks.  You should rad up on what that ban actually banned before blabbering about it preventing bloodbaths.... it didn't.

ah.  the law slowed down the incidences, and then immediately after the law expired (thanks to your fellow travellers) the rate of mass shootings began shooting up in geometric proportions.

But the two things are not related to each other, and I need to read up on stuff before i post these inconvenient numbers.

Sounds reasonable.

Ok, let's see it.  I'd love to hear your analysis of the ban and how it prevented mass murderers from buying high capacity semi automatic rifles (hint, it didn't).    I know you have your agenda, which is fine, but in this case you're wrong.  The guns legal before, during, and after the ban all functioned the same.  Just a few minutes of reading the Wikipedia article you lined would reveal that.  So it wasn't the guns themselves that prevented anything.  There a number of huge developments in that 10 year period that came about and profoundly changed our society.  Maybe those had something to do with it?  I do know one thing, the physical properties of the firearms that were banned had nothing to do with it, the guns were functionally the same the whole time.

you  mean other than the actual numbers, right?

Let's see em. 

Or, just explain to me how banning these features causes a downturn is mass shootings:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
-Folding or telescoping stock
-Pistol grip
-Bayonet mount
-Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
-Grenade launcher mount

The following guns are compliant with the 1994 AWB.  These were available for purchase the entire time the AWB was in place, along with any capacity magazine you wanted.  Hopefully these images will convey better than I can in words that the AWB had no teeth and in fact didn't ban "assault weapons":







Now, I want to know how you think the AWB actually caused a downturn in mass shootings.  I'm not overly concerned about the numbers, they aren't conclusive one way or the other.  I want to know how YOU think that those features that were banned would prevent anyone from going on a shooting spree.  Tell me, please.

yawn.  the numbers.  but hey, keep shilling for the manufacturers.  they need the money.

Ah, typical response from you.  Still no answers to my questions.  Troll on!

[Adam White]

Feel free to post a pic and offer an opinion 

If you go back a few pages, you might see where I mentioned it appears to be religious terrorism.

Thanks Adam... my query/observation is not really directed at you... but the contrast between the thread is simply amazing...

Although the specifics appear to be vague at the moment, it appears that religious extremism is a factor (if not the sole factor, certainly a contributory one). It might've helped if the shooters had left a manifesto or a note or something - but unless the cops aren't telling us, there doesn't appear to be one.

[Adam White]

Here is the picture of one of the gun users.  Part of the problem Adam is that the wrong syed farook was originally identified.  (there are apparently two Syed R Farooks in the county). Media ran photos of the wrong guy and published his address.  So people have been gun shy for the past couple of days about posting photos until they are sure they have the right one.

http://wonkette.com/596591/daily-beast-finds-terroristy-name-in-phone-book-solves-san-bernardino-case


Syed Farook

Burguan said a San Bernardino officer was shot in the leg by one of the suspects and is expected to be released from the hospital Thursday. A sheriff's deputy sustained cuts on his leg and is expected to recover.

Inland Regional Center is a nonprofit, private community center for people with developmental disabilities. It has nearly 670 staff members and provides services to over 31,000 people, according to the center's website.

The building that houses the center is also used as an event space. On the day of the shooting, the San Bernardino County's public health department was holding an award ceremony there. Co-workers told the LA Times that Farook, a health inspector, left the party just before a group photo was taken.

Police said there was no indication his job was in jeopardy.

Two health department workers who hid in a restroom when the shooting broke out told the LA Times that Farook was a quiet and polite man. They were surprised that he was the attacker.

The shooting was deadliest in America since the 2012 attack on Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

I believe the other guy was the brother of the shooter.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-bernardino-shooting-brother-of-gunman-wrongly-identified-as-shooter-is-in-fact-a-navy-veteran-a6760036.html

Now they're apparently saying the woman "pledged allegiance to IS" before the shootings:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-bernardino-shooting-female-shooter-reportedly-pledged-allegiance-to-isis-investigators-believe-a6760721.html

[Adam White]

kindof.  it was on a Facebook page under a different name with no common known isis members on the friendlist.

I'm assuming the investigators have pretty good reason to believe it was her page.

[Adam White]

kindof.  it was on a Facebook page under a different name with no common known isis members on the friendlist.

I'm assuming the investigators have pretty good reason to believe it was her page.

As would I.  The term they are using about it now is that these two didn't have direct contact with ISIS but were 'self radicalized'.

http://www.businessinsider.com/san-bernardino-shooter-isis-cnn-2015-12

The female shooter in the San Bernardino, California, attack earlier this week reportedly pledged allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as the attack was unfolding, three unnamed officials told CNN.

The post was apparently written on Facebook under a different name, according to CNN's sources.

Investigators still have not determined a conclusive motive for the Wednesday attack on the Inland Regional Center, a county facility that provides services to the disabled.

Syed Rizwan Farook, a 28-year-old US citizen, and Tashfeen Malik, his 27-year-old wife, killed 14 people in the shooting and injured at least 21 others. They died in a shootout with police.

Investigators believe the attack was likely inspired by ISIS (also known as ISIL and the Islamic State), but not ordered by or coordinated directly with the terrorist group, according to CNN. The news network's sources did not explain how Malik wrote the Facebook post in support of Baghdadi.

One law-enforcement official told CNN that the attackers look to have been "self-radicalized." Another source said the investigation is focusing on a workplace issue about religion more than the apparent ISIS connection.

Malik moved to California with Farook in 2014 and was living in the US under a K-1 visa with a Pakistani passport, said David Bowdich, assistant director of the FBI's Los Angeles bureau.

CNN and other news outlets reported Thursday that Farook was in touch with extremists who were being investigated by the FBI for terrorism links. Local police officials said at a press conference on Thursday that Farook was not on their radar for terrorism.

Sounds pretty reasonable. I bet the Colorado shooter was self-radicalized as well.

[acme54321]

acme.  you still haven't overcome the elephant sitting on the chest of your argument.

You argued that the cancellation of the assault weapons ban would not result in more shootings. you were wrong.  This isn't theory, its numbers.

You can't get past that so you are literally inventing anything and everything you have to to avoid facing that fact.

The story of the policies which you support is being written in the blood of children and innocent people all across this country.

And here you are again, after yet another mass shooting, with the names of the dead being released this morning, and what are you doing?

Defending the dead?

No.

You are defending the guns.

The numbers you still haven't produced?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Stephen,

That article you posted from the DailyBeast reads like the script of a movie I enjoyed....

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137363/

[fsquid]

Smith and Wesson stock is up 97% year to date.  Seems like people like their guns.

[finehoe]

why do people think banning guns will stop them?

Because that is the experience in other civilized countries. What is it about the USA that makes you so certain that what works in other democracies won't work here?

[finehoe]

... this is in reference to firearm registration... it is such a good solution then certainly you should be open to other registration drives... you know cause they got nothing to hide right?

What do you have to hide when you register your automobile?  What are young men hiding when they register for the draft?  Your argument is specious.

Which Article is Freedom to Drive again?  I would support that amendment if it was proposed...

You conveniently ignore the part of the 2nd Amendment that says "well-regulated".

[coredumped]

why do people think banning guns will stop them?

Because that is the experience in other civilized countries. What is it about the USA that makes you so certain that what works in other democracies won't work here?

Please, cite the country with a gun ban where they don't have mass shootings and or killings. I'd love to hear of it.