The JTA Skyway: Keep it or dump it?

[Thad Crowe]

buncha moguls & politicos - where are our design & technical people? Don't see the long view coming out from that group. Thanks Ennis.

[CCMjax]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

Which is why it has been kind of a failure no?  I can't think of an elevated people mover/skyway system in this country that only services a relatively small core area that is successful other than Disney's.  Detroit, Miami, Jacksonville . . . . all pretty inefficient systems are they not?  The really efficient ones extend to the suburbs like Chicago's elevated train, DC's, Boston's, NYC's, etc.  Even the more modern systems like Charlotte, Phoenix, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, etc go out to the suburbs.  The skyway in my opinion needs to eventually be retrofitted to handle and more long distance system.  Keep the infrastructure that's there just retrofit it and extend it via ground level tracks and elevated where needed.  Lake, didn't you say way back that it was originally designed to handle an LRT system?

[CCMjax]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

Which is why it has been kind of a failure no?  I can't think of an elevated people mover/skyway system in this country that only services a relatively small core area that is successful other than Disney's.  Detroit, Miami, Jacksonville . . . . all pretty inefficient systems are they not?  The really efficient ones extend to the suburbs like Chicago's elevated train, DC's, Boston's, NYC's, etc.  Even the more modern systems like Charlotte, Phoenix, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, etc go out to the suburbs.  The skyway in my opinion needs to eventually be retrofitted to handle and more long distance system.  Keep the infrastructure that's there just retrofit it and extend it via ground level tracks and elevated where needed.  Lake, didn't you say way back that it was originally designed to handle an LRT system?

Ok I just read your other article about Miami's skyway being relatively successful so maybe I'm wrong.  The last time I was in Miami was about 10 years ago and I remember it being just kind of something taking up space and I didn't see many people on it.  Detroit's was always kind of that way as well but I haven't seen it in a while.

[ProjectMaximus]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

Which is why it has been kind of a failure no?  I can't think of an elevated people mover/skyway system in this country that only services a relatively small core area that is successful other than Disney's.  Detroit, Miami, Jacksonville . . . . all pretty inefficient systems are they not?  The really efficient ones extend to the suburbs like Chicago's elevated train, DC's, Boston's, NYC's, etc.  Even the more modern systems like Charlotte, Phoenix, Orlando, Houston, Dallas, etc go out to the suburbs.  The skyway in my opinion needs to eventually be retrofitted to handle and more long distance system.  Keep the infrastructure that's there just retrofit it and extend it via ground level tracks and elevated where needed.  Lake, didn't you say way back that it was originally designed to handle an LRT system?

Chicago, DC, Boston and NYC (plus SF and Philly) all use multiple modes of fixed transit. There's no reason the skyway couldnt be successful as it is right now if it had other modes connecting to it. In any case, even if it can all be retrofitted into light rail, Jax would most likely have to use heavy rail for its commuter lines running SW and SE from DT. I'd imagine north to the airport would probably be the same as well though it's not as obvious. So, like those legacy cities, we'll need a mix to serve all the areas of the metro. (Bus is important too)

As you noted in your next post, Miami's metromover has seen a resurgence as the overall system (including two other modes of fixed transit) has become better utilized.

[exnewsman]

The Skyway wasn't meant to be a system that can travel great distances.  All it is, is a small downtown circulator in its current state. Utilizing it for anything that will reach UNF or the beach will require the retrofit of the system into another type of technology like streetcar or LRT.

The type of system you describe is exactly what UMTA (now FTA) wanted to test in various downtowns back when this was being planned. I think most people don't realize that the feds came to Jacksonville and said we want you to do this... not the other way around. The city said yes and then asked JTA to work on the planning. There was also a significant community based portion who gave their approval before anything concrete was poured. The problem was too many business moved from the downtown core between design and construction completion leaving a serious lack of ridership from the word go.

That loss of business traffic, and subsequent loss of ridership kept local politicians and other city leaders from building out the system as planned.
Looking back at the Skyway now and saying it should be this or it should be that just doesn't hold water. Nobody anticipated what was going to come to downtown. Whether they should or not is up for debate. But the Skyway is a symptom of what happened, not a cause.

Now, with decisions to make on its future, is a time when it can be transformed into something more relevant and useful. Although with three consecutive years of 1M plus ridership, its doing pretty well with what it is. The future of the Skyway could be great... if there is enough foresight and commitment to make it happen.

Think about if Shad Khan's vision for the Shipyards comes to fruition and the Skyway extends there. Or the two proposed Southbank developments happen and the Skyway connects to those. and then there's Brooklyn. Just those three new spurs along could potentially double the current ridership as it could bring constant flow to the system and give a reason for a 7-day operation rather than 5 day and a few weekend event days.

If a at-grade solution could be incorporated even better as it would save money over building concrete columns and stations in the sky.

All that without extend beyond the downtown and close neighborhoods are. Then you let commuter rail or LRT extend out to the Beaches, Orange Park, Mandarin, etc.

[thelakelander]

^Great points!