Convention center, Downtown on draft list for Curry

[UNFurbanist]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

Wow.

First of all, you clearly don't travel because hotels also have points systems.  Right now there is no Marriott downtown.  If there is, all of those who prefer Marriott and earn points with them will stay.  It's like an airline, get it?  Many people do have multiple accounts (I have Starwood, Marriott, Kimpton, and Hyatt).

A boutique Marriott, like an Autograph in a restored building like the Adagio I put my Marriotts Rewards parents up in here in SF right in the Theater District, is certainly preferred over some shitty massive convention hotel like the Hyatt in DT Jax.  I'm not the only one who feels that way, and Hyatt in DT Jax is a dime a dozen.  Where Mickey Mouse hoodie wearing families go and large business group travelers.  Even if LST turns into a Courtyard - I guarantee there is a whole slew of people who prefer an intimate, clean Courtyard with a boutiquey feel to that ugly POS we have on the river.


RE: your other comments.  Wow.

Let's all quit dreaming now!  Forget our own dreams!  Forget the dreams of others! Geez, what a miserable miserable way to even think!!


And do you not realize that in EVERY city more people choose to live in the burbs than in a downtown?  Even Manhattan can only fit so many people...most people moving to NYC move to Queens, or the burbs out in LI, CT, NJ, further up NY.  Same with Chicago...that city puts up 10 towers a year to house thousands of new people downtown, but still more people moving to Chicago don't choose to live in a high rise downtown.  But you would never know that if logic fails you and you visit, seeing that massive skyline and all that construction.

DT Jax would be no different.  It would be a world first if all of a sudden more people chose to live in the urban core over the burbs, here in Jax.  Nobody is thinking that will happen.  What people want is just some people to want to live in the urban core.  And we know there is some demand, but THERE ARE NO HOUSING OPTIONS!  When there are housing options, they do fill up.  Perhaps not in record time at record pricing like you have out in San Francisco, but they do fill up, they do make developers/investors happy, generally, and having more and more of these options WILL BE THE ONLY WAY JAX CAN REMAIN COMPETITIVE since MY generation wants these options and we are YOUR future!

You are on the wrong board...you need to join like an Avondale Housing Watch or neighborhood association so you can block all future new restaurants, judge your neighbors' home renovations and tell them what they need to change to get your approval, and oppose any and all new housing developments that will "increase traffic" in your neighborhood.  Not sure if Avondale is your neighborhood or not...but this board will only frustrate you.  Go there...and join such a group.  You'll fit right in and find your true life's calling. 

+10000!
I was just typing up a rant that basically said the same thing! We need people without vision to step out of the way. That is why this city is so far behind.

[CCMjax]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

Wow.

First of all, you clearly don't travel because hotels also have points systems.  Right now there is no Marriott downtown.  If there is, all of those who prefer Marriott and earn points with them will stay.  It's like an airline, get it?  Many people do have multiple accounts (I have Starwood, Marriott, Kimpton, and Hyatt).

A boutique Marriott, like an Autograph in a restored building like the Adagio I put my Marriotts Rewards parents up in here in SF right in the Theater District, is certainly preferred over some shitty massive convention hotel like the Hyatt in DT Jax.  I'm not the only one who feels that way, and Hyatt in DT Jax is a dime a dozen.  Where Mickey Mouse hoodie wearing families go and large business group travelers.  Even if LST turns into a Courtyard - I guarantee there is a whole slew of people who prefer an intimate, clean Courtyard with a boutiquey feel to that ugly POS we have on the river.


RE: your other comments.  Wow.

Let's all quit dreaming now!  Forget our own dreams!  Forget the dreams of others! Geez, what a miserable miserable way to even think!!


And do you not realize that in EVERY city more people choose to live in the burbs than in a downtown?  Even Manhattan can only fit so many people...most people moving to NYC move to Queens, or the burbs out in LI, CT, NJ, further up NY.  Same with Chicago...that city puts up 10 towers a year to house thousands of new people downtown, but still more people moving to Chicago don't choose to live in a high rise downtown.  But you would never know that if logic fails you and you visit, seeing that massive skyline and all that construction.

DT Jax would be no different.  It would be a world first if all of a sudden more people chose to live in the urban core over the burbs, here in Jax.  Nobody is thinking that will happen.  What people want is just some people to want to live in the urban core.  And we know there is some demand, but THERE ARE NO HOUSING OPTIONS!  When there are housing options, they do fill up.  Perhaps not in record time at record pricing like you have out in San Francisco, but they do fill up, they do make developers/investors happy, generally, and having more and more of these options WILL BE THE ONLY WAY JAX CAN REMAIN COMPETITIVE since MY generation wants these options and we are YOUR future!

You are on the wrong board...you need to join like an Avondale Housing Watch or neighborhood association so you can block all future new restaurants, judge your neighbors' home renovations and tell them what they need to change to get your approval, and oppose any and all new housing developments that will "increase traffic" in your neighborhood.  Not sure if Avondale is your neighborhood or not...but this board will only frustrate you.  Go there...and join such a group.  You'll fit right in and find your true life's calling. 

^ +1000000000000000000.  Mtrain - The point of this board is to discuss what should be done to change the direction of Jacksonville so that it doesn't get worse, not to just state the obvious about what's going on right now.

[The_Choose_1]

Funny I didn't say Alvin did I? I will say having the condo & apartments in the downtown area is a good start. But unless you live in them most people leave downtown after work. And don't return unless to eat at over priced restaurants or go to a used bookstore. It's time for the Miracle Worker Curry to bring us all the promise land. 

[simms3]

Funny I didn't say Alvin did I? I will say having the condo & apartments in the downtown area is a good start. But unless you live in them most people leave downtown after work. And don't return unless to eat at over priced restaurants or go to a used bookstore. It's time for the Miracle Worker Curry to bring us all the promise land. 

Gosh how do all those other cities manage?

What in your opinion are the overpriced restaurants?  In my opinion, Olive Garden is overpriced.  What is it $12-15 for an entree of defrosted food that I can buy in a box in the grocery for $8-10?

[Noone]

the core of the city will be still be fairly dead in 2025.

The core of the city is dead, most of you cannot see it. Adding a hotel to the LST, whaat? What business traveler wants to go there, versus the HYatt on the river? The Hyatt is stripping all the rooms down to the core and rebuilding them all, so even if the Marriott comes in the next decade, Hyatt will already have made a presence downtown with the businesses and Visit Jax. There is nothing around the LST, unless Eddie and Chuck want to put up their clients there instead of the Gator Lodge.

Forget what happens in other cities, it does not happen here. MetroJax has been dreaming for years of light rail, where is it? still a dream. Jax is not Orlando or Miami or Tampa or San Fran, but it is sprawl and growth in the burbs, as compared to downtown. Downtown is already dead.

You can use the oft provided http://www.esri.com/data/esri_data/ziptapestry or  http://www.bestplaces.net/zip-code/florida/jacksonville/ and see what is in 32202 right now, what its median income is, the type of person in the area. This is what is here right now, meanwhile the exodus continues away from the core, more and more people are choosing to live further away from the downtown core. Why? Because there is nothing in the core right now, and no matter the number of Healthy Towns or Shipyards or Berkmans, they don't fix the continuing issue that downtown is nowheresville.

The truth hurts but this poster is right on the money. 

We are a Sanctuary Downtown!
DIA- Downtown Is Adrift

[The_Choose_1]

Funny I didn't say Alvin did I? I will say having the condo & apartments in the downtown area is a good start. But unless you live in them most people leave downtown after work. And don't return unless to eat at over priced restaurants or go to a used bookstore. It's time for the Miracle Worker Curry to bring us all the promise land. 

Gosh how do all those other cities manage?

What in your opinion are the overpriced restaurants?  In my opinion, Olive Garden is overpriced.  What is it $12-15 for an entree of defrosted food that I can buy in a box in the grocery for $8-10?

I was speaking about downtown Restaurants? Like the La Cena Ristorante on N. Laura St, Candy Apple Cafe, Benny's Steak & Seafood, and others. The Candy Apple Cafe & Benny's Steak & Seafood is fine for lunch but not to return for dinner IMO.

[JagsnStuff]

I understand what many want with a brand new convention center in DT; however, this would be a horrible time to go that route. One of the problems cited by visitors to Prime Osborn is that there was little access to hotels, restaurants, and things to do around the area. Placing a Convention Center on the site of the old courthouse won't be much better. Until the powers that be can get their ducks in a row about downtown development, we should not set ourselves up for failure in a place (i.e. the old courthouse) which would not please visitors and cause them to criticize our city. I know many are going to hate this, but the only serious option in competing with the current market on conventions is placing a convention center near the town center. There are enough hotels, restaurants, and things to do in that area to show visitors that there are actually things to do in this city.

[Captain Zissou]

I understand what many want with a brand new convention center in DT; however, this would be a horrible time to go that route. One of the problems cited by visitors to Prime Osborn is that there was little access to hotels, restaurants, and things to do around the area. Placing a Convention Center on the site of the old courthouse won't be much better. Until the powers that be can get their ducks in a row about downtown development, we should not set ourselves up for failure in a place (i.e. the old courthouse) which would not please visitors and cause them to criticize our city. I know many are going to hate this, but the only serious option in competing with the current market on conventions is placing a convention center near the town center. There are enough hotels, restaurants, and things to do in that area to show visitors that there are actually things to do in this city.

There is nowhere on the southside that would have enough hotel rooms for a decent convention within walking distance to a convention center.  There are a number of rooms in the area, but you'd still have to drive or use hotel shuttles from hotels up to 5 miles away.  If the hotel went in at the convention center, there are currently 3 large hotels you could walk to and another 4 that are accessible by skyway.  Nowhere in the southside can claim that.

The problem with the southside is that everyone loses perspective on how far apart things actually are.  Things over there are "near" each other, but all of the attractions are at least a mile to two miles apart.  My friends who lived off Kernan would often say they moved there to be "near" everything.  They were central, but they couldn't go anywhere without driving 3-5 miles.  I may be far from the beach, but I can walk to the square in 15 minutes and my possibilities within 3 miles are endless.

[simms3]

Funny I didn't say Alvin did I? I will say having the condo & apartments in the downtown area is a good start. But unless you live in them most people leave downtown after work. And don't return unless to eat at over priced restaurants or go to a used bookstore. It's time for the Miracle Worker Curry to bring us all the promise land. 

Gosh how do all those other cities manage?

What in your opinion are the overpriced restaurants?  In my opinion, Olive Garden is overpriced.  What is it $12-15 for an entree of defrosted food that I can buy in a box in the grocery for $8-10?

I was speaking about downtown Restaurants? Like the La Cena Ristorante on N. Laura St, Candy Apple Cafe, Benny's Steak & Seafood, and others. The Candy Apple Cafe & Benny's Steak & Seafood is fine for lunch but not to return for dinner IMO.

My comment about Olive Garden went right over your head...of course there is no Olive Garden downtown.

Let me digest the rest of your reply.

So one of the only legitimate Italian restaurants in all of NE FL, universally known as an expensive restaurant by all going in, is a "typical overpriced downtown restaurant?"  I guess Olive Garden it is...$12-15 for defrosted food that can be bought in a box at the store for $8-10.  Or Johnny Carino's.  Romano's?  Buca di Bepo?  Carraba's?  Maggiano's?  Spaghetti Factory?

By the way...I just looked up the menu (bc it's been a while)...$25-35 for entrees and $9-15 for starters for quality home-cooked Italian food in a small/intimate restaurant with good service and decades long reputation (and same chef all along...no matter how crazy he is, he has earned a name locally).  And by the way, the portions are HUGE and you will take home your next two lunches.  This might be the best Italian in town.  You call that unreasonable?!?!  Please go back to your mobile home in Middleburg...

Listen.  Every downtown in America typically has higher prices for food (or for anything).  Similar to why your corner bodega/Walgreens charges 20-30% more for the same staples you can find in a massive supermarket.  I'm pretty sure a footlong Subway in SF's financial district costs $8 or so while it costs $6-7 elsewhere.  A pack of cigarettes in the financial district/Union Square can cost up to $12-15 or more whereas in my neighborhood it costs $7 (not that I'm a smoker...only when drinking).  A 750 mL bottle of Belvedere in a club costs $500 whereas it costs $35-40 in some stores.

If things *weren't* overpriced, at all, in DT Jax, that would mean there is no visitor/worker crush, at all, and that wouldn't be good, at all.  I still have a hard time believing anything in DT Jax is really all that "overpriced", though.

A place by the name of Benny's Steak & Seafood just sounds terrible.  I doubt you could pay me to eat at a place like that.  But I guarantee you every other strip mall in suburban Jacksonville has an exact copy of this restaurant.  So just don't go~!  What makes this one "overpriced" compared to the hundreds of other copies?

I swear, you and so many other posters that crawl out of the woodwork in Jacksonville...you only continue the stereotype.  And if you don't know what I'm talking about, don't worry about it.  If you do, wear your stereotypes with honor I guess.


Recently there have been threads/discussions on places, and cheap places in particular, to eat in downtown Jax.  Clearly there is a dearth all the way around due to lack of workers/visitors/residents, but there are places (dozens in fact, that you didn't list out).  Maybe research a bit.  This forum often disputes me, proves me wrong, and then points me in the right direction for when I come into town.  You live there!  Do better...

[simms3]

I understand what many want with a brand new convention center in DT; however, this would be a horrible time to go that route. One of the problems cited by visitors to Prime Osborn is that there was little access to hotels, restaurants, and things to do around the area. Placing a Convention Center on the site of the old courthouse won't be much better. Until the powers that be can get their ducks in a row about downtown development, we should not set ourselves up for failure in a place (i.e. the old courthouse) which would not please visitors and cause them to criticize our city. I know many are going to hate this, but the only serious option in competing with the current market on conventions is placing a convention center near the town center. There are enough hotels, restaurants, and things to do in that area to show visitors that there are actually things to do in this city.

There is nowhere on the southside that would have enough hotel rooms for a decent convention within walking distance to a convention center.  There are a number of rooms in the area, but you'd still have to drive or use hotel shuttles from hotels up to 5 miles away.  If the hotel went in at the convention center, there are currently 3 large hotels you could walk to and another 4 that are accessible by skyway.  Nowhere in the southside can claim that.

The problem with the southside is that everyone loses perspective on how far apart things actually are.  Things over there are "near" each other, but all of the attractions are at least a mile to two miles apart.  My friends who lived off Kernan would often say they moved there to be "near" everything.  They were central, but they couldn't go anywhere without driving 3-5 miles.  I may be far from the beach, but I can walk to the square in 15 minutes and my possibilities within 3 miles are endless.

Exactly.  Spoken like someone who doesn't go to conventions (technically neither do I, but I see how these things work).  Orlando and Vegas aside, and frankly McCormick in Chicago, too, most cities try to put their convention centers around touristy things and around visitor amenities that can be walked to or easily/cheaply cabbed to.

Not that Jax is a cab/walking city, but at least downtown a tourist can walk along the river, there are restaurants within walking distance, a few bars, the highest concentration of hotels (all technically within walking distance...truly), and other venues (arena, stadium, other hotels with conference rooms, offices, etc).

Putting a cc on the SS means we are requiring visitors and conventioneers to all rent cars, which is a huge expense.  Shuttles only go so far.  And for visitors, there really isn't much on the SS at all.

It's really telling when people actually think that the SJTC and area is some huge attraction for most visitors who are in town for business/conventions.  Let's not rationalize by equating the demand of the SJTC by visitors in from Waycross GA or Lake City.  Let's think more along the lines of people who work in Austin TX or Minneapolis or Seattle or Boston or NYC.  None of those folks want to be stuck out in the pine forests of the SS "near" a local mall with a few restaurants the locals think are so awesome but compared to an avg restaraunt in other cities are pretty bad.

[CCMjax]

I understand what many want with a brand new convention center in DT; however, this would be a horrible time to go that route. One of the problems cited by visitors to Prime Osborn is that there was little access to hotels, restaurants, and things to do around the area. Placing a Convention Center on the site of the old courthouse won't be much better. Until the powers that be can get their ducks in a row about downtown development, we should not set ourselves up for failure in a place (i.e. the old courthouse) which would not please visitors and cause them to criticize our city. I know many are going to hate this, but the only serious option in competing with the current market on conventions is placing a convention center near the town center. There are enough hotels, restaurants, and things to do in that area to show visitors that there are actually things to do in this city.

The Town Center is not a cultural center, it is a glorified shopping mall in the middle of suburbia with insane traffic issues.  And the other poster is right, everything in that area is centrally located within the southeastern metropolitan area, but miles away from anything unique.  A major convention center should be in the cultural center of a city, or close IMO.  Give the Brooklyn developments a few years and the Prime Osborne's location may actually not be that bad.  I said this before, I think Water Street is the next area to be developed after Brooklyn is tapped out.  It might be a decade or so but it is a good spot and close to Brooklyn and downtown.

I'm not saying the convention center should forever be at that location but eventually I think it will be an attractive area.  I see it being a museum of some sort with attached Amtrak/transportation center eventually down the road when a new convention center is built.

[CCMjax]

I understand what many want with a brand new convention center in DT; however, this would be a horrible time to go that route. One of the problems cited by visitors to Prime Osborn is that there was little access to hotels, restaurants, and things to do around the area. Placing a Convention Center on the site of the old courthouse won't be much better. Until the powers that be can get their ducks in a row about downtown development, we should not set ourselves up for failure in a place (i.e. the old courthouse) which would not please visitors and cause them to criticize our city. I know many are going to hate this, but the only serious option in competing with the current market on conventions is placing a convention center near the town center. There are enough hotels, restaurants, and things to do in that area to show visitors that there are actually things to do in this city.

There is nowhere on the southside that would have enough hotel rooms for a decent convention within walking distance to a convention center.  There are a number of rooms in the area, but you'd still have to drive or use hotel shuttles from hotels up to 5 miles away.  If the hotel went in at the convention center, there are currently 3 large hotels you could walk to and another 4 that are accessible by skyway.  Nowhere in the southside can claim that.

The problem with the southside is that everyone loses perspective on how far apart things actually are.  Things over there are "near" each other, but all of the attractions are at least a mile to two miles apart.  My friends who lived off Kernan would often say they moved there to be "near" everything.  They were central, but they couldn't go anywhere without driving 3-5 miles.  I may be far from the beach, but I can walk to the square in 15 minutes and my possibilities within 3 miles are endless.

Exactly.  Spoken like someone who doesn't go to conventions (technically neither do I, but I see how these things work).  Orlando and Vegas aside, and frankly McCormick in Chicago, too, most cities try to put their convention centers around touristy things and around visitor amenities that can be walked to or easily/cheaply cabbed to.

Not that Jax is a cab/walking city, but at least downtown a tourist can walk along the river, there are restaurants within walking distance, a few bars, the highest concentration of hotels (all technically within walking distance...truly), and other venues (arena, stadium, other hotels with conference rooms, offices, etc).

Putting a cc on the SS means we are requiring visitors and conventioneers to all rent cars, which is a huge expense.  Shuttles only go so far.  And for visitors, there really isn't much on the SS at all.

It's really telling when people actually think that the SJTC and area is some huge attraction for most visitors who are in town for business/conventions.  Let's not rationalize by equating the demand of the SJTC by visitors in from Waycross GA or Lake City.  Let's think more along the lines of people who work in Austin TX or Minneapolis or Seattle or Boston or NYC.  None of those folks want to be stuck out in the pine forests of the SS "near" a local mall with a few restaurants the locals think are so awesome but compared to an avg restaraunt in other cities are pretty bad.

Ha ha, you nailed it!  In fact every post I read of yours pretty much nails it.

I want to drive home the point you made, PEOPLE FROM REAL CITIES ARE NOT IMPRESSED BY THE SJ TOWN CENTER!  And those are typically the people coming in for conventions.  Most would say, "Christ, what the hell am I doing at a freakin mall?  What am I supposed to do here?  Go to Nordstrom's?  I thought I was here on a business trip and to absorb some local culture."

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

Well, I agree. However, the Orange County Convention Center was in the most suburban place possible, and it is by far the most popular destination for conventions in the country and the largest. I know Disney is there, that area has slightly urbanized, and it is apples to oranges, but it is not anywhere near their urban center.

[spuwho]

I can say that when Jacksonville hosted a cheerleading competition at the Arena, there was a traffic jam of rented minivans trying to get out to SJTC during the afternoon break.

So it does have value. If the same options were downtown then I am sure they would have walked there.

The mistake I see in alot of these posts is that they assume everyone approaches travel like they do.

Its true some people want an "experience" but some people have work to get done. Especially after sitting in a convention hall all day.

[simms3]

Well, I agree. However, the Orange County Convention Center was in the most suburban place possible, and it is by far the most popular destination for conventions in the country and the largest. I know Disney is there, that area has slightly urbanized, and it is apples to oranges, but it is not anywhere near their urban center.

Correct.  Orlando is absolutely not apples to apples at all.  Neither is Las Vegas.  I don't understand how some people can conflate Jax for Orlando.  A convention held in Orlando won't come to Jax anyway.  Orlando hosts *really really* large conventions, some going for weeks at a time.  So it is a plus to be near all the attractions Orlando offers, like I Drive, Disney, Universal, etc.

I can say that when Jacksonville hosted a cheerleading competition at the Arena, there was a traffic jam of rented minivans trying to get out to SJTC during the afternoon break.

So it does have value. If the same options were downtown then I am sure they would have walked there.

The mistake I see in alot of these posts is that they assume everyone approaches travel like they do.

Its true some people want an "experience" but some people have work to get done. Especially after sitting in a convention hall all day.

Also, one cheerleading convention should not be the litmus test for what is needed for Jacksonville's convention center.  Not to mention you point out that the cheerleading thing is at the arena.  Are you saying we should have built the arena out by SJTC?  That's the only conclusion I can draw from your mentioning of that event.

Now here's where the "snob" in me is going to come out.  I don't want no stinkin cheerleading competitions in Jax!  I want conventions revolving around industry.  And industry conventions won't result in a traffic jam of Chrysler Town N Country minivans hauling ass to get to Cheesecake Factory at the Town Center.  Industry conventions are likely to have participants who do often/largely travel like I do.

I get it...Sheena and her daughter Tracy, both in from Valdosta, are enamored with "the Big City of Jax" and the awesome "Town Center".  Frank who is gay and lives in Midtown Omaha and works at Berkshire or ConAgra doesn't give two flying fucks (and DT Omaha puts DT Jax to shame by the way).  Let alone Jenn who grew up in small town CA and went to college at Berkeley but now lives in Houston or Raleigh.  She ain't coming to Jax to shop or dine at Maggiano's.

Sadly, yes, in cities like Jax the Capital Grille is a take out after work kind of place and it happens to be at SJTC, not downtown, like it is in other peer cities like Charlotte, but there is a Ruth's Chris downtown and a new steakhouse opening!

In regards to "but most of us need to work afterward".  That I can relate to.  I'm having a slow week and posting like crazy, but generally I'm constantly working.  The last thing I want is to spend time in a car to get from one destination to the next in travels...it's *always* better staying downtown.  Downtown also has the highest concentration of offices.  MOre likely that your company's local office is within walking distance of a DT cc than the SS.

Plus, when you do get finished working, much easier to meet people down for drinks somewhere if you're all downtown as opposed to somewhere in the burbs.