Jax's Rapid Transit System Taking Shape

[Metro Jacksonville]

Jax's Rapid Transit System Taking Shape



Take a trip to downtown and you'll notice that Jefferson and Broad Streets have become a major construction zone. However, unlike most roadway construction projects in town, these are a part of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's (JTA) plan to improve mass transit in Jacksonville. The transformation of this corridor happens to be the first visual signs of JTA's First Coast Flyer Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system.

Read More: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-jun-jaxs-rapid-transit-system-taking-shape

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

For the dedicated bus lanes in downtown, doesn't it mirror the Skyway too much? Wouldn't it have made more sense to do an east-west route across the northbank as a complement to the Skyway? The dedicated lanes serve very little purpose at least from what I can see at this point just along Broad and Jefferson as well. If this is not supposed to drive TOD around this vacant area, it is confusing why they are spending all the money for the dedicated lanes here. The east-west from the Prime to the Stadium District would make a lot more sense at least for usefulness in downtown and take more people to real destinations using the BRT from North and Southside.

[acme54321]

So they are going to put dedicated BRT lanes on Riverplace Blvd and on King's Ave?  How is that going to work on Riveplace with DIA's new vision of that corridor?  And how will it physically kit on King's Ave without either eliminating the turn lane or widening the road? 

[thelakelander]

I believe that dedicated lanes in the Southbank will be on Kings only. The rest will just mix in traffic like MetroRapid does in Tampa:

[mbwright]

Always neat to see the old road pavers, (and granite curbs in some places).

[cline]

Good stuff. Would be nice to have been able to underground some of the utilities. Those wooden poles in the middle of the sidewalk along Jefferson are a bit of an eyesore.

[thelakelander]

For the dedicated bus lanes in downtown, doesn't it mirror the Skyway too much? Wouldn't it have made more sense to do an east-west route across the northbank as a complement to the Skyway? The dedicated lanes serve very little purpose at least from what I can see at this point just along Broad and Jefferson as well. If this is not supposed to drive TOD around this vacant area, it is confusing why they are spending all the money for the dedicated lanes here. The east-west from the Prime to the Stadium District would make a lot more sense at least for usefulness in downtown and take more people to real destinations using the BRT from North and Southside.

It will be a citywide system.  Here's the full proposed route and station map:

[Bike Jax]

Please. Please stop referring to this idiotic waste of money as BRT. It is not in any way, shape or form a BRT system. It may be an express bus at best, but the fact that the thing is in regular traffic for at least 50% of it's trip brings even the express portion into question.

What are the standards for Bus Rapid Transit? https://www.itdp.org/library/standards-and-guides/the-bus-rapid-transit-standard/

[thelakelander]

It's basically what many in the industry refer to as BRT-lite.  In other words, an offering of bus routes at frequencies one would typically expect in a city of Jax's size. IMO, in general, it's an improvement of what's being offered locally today. However, it's a failure if it's going to be sold as being comparable to fixed transit or something that will stimulate Transit Oriented Development (TOD). It's also not a good idea to say it paves the way for LRT or that it can/will be converted into LRT at a later date. In reality, conversion doesn't make sense on many levels.

[Dapperdan]

I can't tell, does it have a stop at the SJTC ? If not, that would be a waste.

[thelakelander]

No stop at the SJTC.....Gateway, Regency, Avenues and Orange Park instead. The closest it gets to SJTC is Beach Blvd.

[JeffreyS]

For the dedicated bus lanes in downtown, doesn't it mirror the Skyway too much? Wouldn't it have made more sense to do an east-west route across the northbank as a complement to the Skyway? The dedicated lanes serve very little purpose at least from what I can see at this point just along Broad and Jefferson as well. If this is not supposed to drive TOD around this vacant area, it is confusing why they are spending all the money for the dedicated lanes here. The east-west from the Prime to the Stadium District would make a lot more sense at least for usefulness in downtown and take more people to real destinations using the BRT from North and Southside.

It will be a citywide system.  Here's the full proposed route and station map:

If only some of those corridors had existing infrastructure. Like fixed rail that people like to invest around.

[thelakelander]

Given the city's development patterns and infrastructure, I think if we truly evaluated it for fixed transit, much of the routes would end up along different corridors.  For example, if considering LRT, JTB works better as a corridor than Philips or a combination of the S-Line/Main Street corridor would be more effective than BRT. Thus, if we ever get serious about fixed transit, I think it and BRT end up complementing each other in certain areas (such as Lem Turner BRT feeding riders into an Nassau County/JIA-to-DT Jax transit spine). This is pretty much how some of the best BRT lines in the country (ex. LA Orange Line BRT, Cleveland Health Line BRT, etc.) operate.

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

For the dedicated bus lanes in downtown, doesn't it mirror the Skyway too much? Wouldn't it have made more sense to do an east-west route across the northbank as a complement to the Skyway? The dedicated lanes serve very little purpose at least from what I can see at this point just along Broad and Jefferson as well. If this is not supposed to drive TOD around this vacant area, it is confusing why they are spending all the money for the dedicated lanes here. The east-west from the Prime to the Stadium District would make a lot more sense at least for usefulness in downtown and take more people to real destinations using the BRT from North and Southside.

It will be a citywide system.  Here's the full proposed route and station map:

I understand. I was just talking about the DT portion and where they are building dedicated lanes for the buses.

[Ocklawaha]

This is hardly a revolutionary transit 'system,' and certainly NOT RAPID TRANSIT by any stretch of the term. Don't drink the Kool Aid. As we've discussed over and over, this is just another bus, with a few extra gimmicks tossed in and labeled so that the masses expect this to be a sea change and the moment in history when Jacksonville goes big league. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

At best BRT is a very nice addition to rail, a improved, limited stop bus that moves slightly faster (although in practice there will be hardly a perceptible difference). We won't be getting some of the nicer world class BRT improvements because then the system would cost every nickel of what Streetcars would cost us. Without rail we will remain a city that is 'all taxi's - no airport.'