Folio's counter to EverBank and Shad Khan

[Rynjny]

This site is getting as worse as the TU site, and getting to a point where I don't even want to come on to this site no more.

[thelakelander]

The Folio article would be more impactful if they listed alternatives that the bed tax could have legally been used for.  I know the convention center is one. There are a few others, such as mass transit, that could be argued for improving tourism. Then there are many that the money couldn't be used for anyway without a change in Tallahassee.

[NativeDigs]

This site is getting as worse as the TU site, and getting to a point where I don't even want to come on to this site no more.

EXACTLY!

[copperfiend]

The Folio article would be more impactful if they listed alternatives that the bed tax could have legally been used for.  I know the convention center is one. There are a few others, such as mass transit, that could be argued for improving tourism. Then there are many that the money couldn't be used for anyway without a change in Tallahassee.

A lot of folks don't seem to understand this.

[Noone]

The Folio article would be more impactful if they listed alternatives that the bed tax could have legally been used for.  I know the convention center is one. There are a few others, such as mass transit, that could be argued for improving tourism. Then there are many that the money couldn't be used for anyway without a change in Tallahassee.

The bed tax is Ordinance 1993-2135

I recalled legislation for Super Bowl XXXIX and the paying of the Super Bowl Host Committee's bills and thought that the bed tax was used for that. It wasn't.

The legislation that reimbursed the Super Bowl Host Committee's $1,198,000 party bill came from the CONVENTION Dev. TRUST fund of which $599,000 was used. And the other $599,000 came from the Sports Complex TRUST fund.

Comfort for taxpayers is to know that this expenditure comes from TRUST funds.

I'm All In.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I don't understand all the angst that the article has caused.  Bill had it nailed pretty much in the first comment.  Those of us who like the boards will always find a way to justify and build value in their purchase.  Those who are against it will always find a way to justify the waste and find alternative uses for the money.

Opine away.

"I like them.  They're kinda neat."

[copperfiend]

The Folio article would be more impactful if they listed alternatives that the bed tax could have legally been used for.  I know the convention center is one. There are a few others, such as mass transit, that could be argued for improving tourism. Then there are many that the money couldn't be used for anyway without a change in Tallahassee.

A lot of folks don't seem to understand this.

they are generally the ones with experience on how the council actually works.

What are you trying to say

[MEGATRON]

Does anyone doubt that the new scoreboards will attract some other significant events.  What was the economic impact of the Country Music Superfest?  Something like $23M?  The video boards pay for themselves if we can attract one more event like that.

We attracted that event without the new video boards, because they, uhhh, weren't unveiled yet.  Fine point, though.

No doubt.  I referenced that event as an example of the economic impact of similar events. 

[TheCat]

First, the tax belongs to us. It can be used for whatever we deem to be a touristy sort of thing. It was said in a another thread that if we wanted to create the world's best library system in order bring in people from around the world to experience it...that's tourism. If we wanted to build the world's most fascinating blow up fun house...that's toursim. If we wanted to expand our park system to bring in more naturists...that's tourism.

Plus, there are other things these dollars can go to that are maybe a touristy thing...fixing beach erosion is one example.

But much like the Folio, you are just listing out unrealistic alternatives. It makes it difficult to take their article seriously.

No, I'm making a larger point. The bed tax dollars do not have to go to the stadium as many seem to think. You know, we could just save the money. Is that an unrealistic alternative?

[funwithteeth]

Start of the second paragraph:

The reality is more nuanced, of course

But they didn't want to get into it because it would undermine much of the argument they are trying to make?

[thelakelander]

someone, somewhere in the process must have said something on the radio about how the city is legally bound to pay for the stadium only (or something along those lines).

The council can change whatever it likes, whenever it likes to, if it has the mind to do so.  All it takes is a minor amendment to be inserted into the omnibus at the legislative session and then voila.  Consider the self changed charter of the JEA.  Was it 'illegal' for them to consider the bondholders over the public?  Yes.  So they changed it in a single session.

But in this case, anything as nebulous as the part already quoted can be used to redefine pretty much any project you want.

Come to Jacksonville!  Home of the cleanest drainage ditches in the Southeast!

Come to Jacksonvillle, We made mayonaisse mandatory on all sandwiches!

Come to Jacksonville!  See our amazing Cops on Bikes!

Come to Jacksonvillle, Its where our bus shelters ARE our arts program!

Come to Jacksonville.  We have an emerald Necklace.



You don't have to look any further than Denise Lee using money legally allocated to rebuild the urban core to demolish the urban core instead by calling it ' human blight removal'.

Keep in mind that I don't have any problem with the money being spent on this.  A significant number of people in this town genuinely enjoy this recreational thing.  Its not my cup of tea, but i probably like a bunch of things paid for with our public money that they don't enjoy. 

I'm not sure if the council can "just" modify the bed tax to spend money on whatever they want. Such a process could become a political landmine that those sitting on our council would be unwilling to partake in.   For example, I seriously doubt spending tourism tax money to keep local libraries open or creating local jobs is going to fly over well with the stakeholders contributing to the tax.  However, there are a few things on the Folio's list that would benefit tourism. 

Cleaning creeks, increased police bike patrol, improve mass transit, extend the riverwalk, build the Emerald Necklace, etc. are all things that improve the quality of life for residents and tourist. Unfortunately, they weren't up on the table for consideration. Probably, because we're still a place that does not have a unified vision of what it wants to be and with a plan to incrementally invest public tax dollars on how to get there. This is the primary reason our riverfront is the way it is today after +50 years of "revitalization", while others in places like Baltimore and Chattanooga have greatly advanced in significantly less time.

With that in mind, it's hard to blame Khan and the Jags for our incompetence.

[thelakelander]

First, the tax belongs to us. It can be used for whatever we deem to be a touristy sort of thing. It was said in a another thread that if we wanted to create the world's best library system in order bring in people from around the world to experience it...that's tourism. If we wanted to build the world's most fascinating blow up fun house...that's toursim. If we wanted to expand our park system to bring in more naturists...that's tourism.

Plus, there are other things these dollars can go to that are maybe a touristy thing...fixing beach erosion is one example.

But much like the Folio, you are just listing out unrealistic alternatives. It makes it difficult to take their article seriously.

No, I'm making a larger point. The bed tax dollars do not have to go to the stadium as many seem to think. You know, we could just save the money. Is that an unrealistic alternative?

Probably. Isn't the idea of a bed tax to reinvest such dollars in a manner that brings more tourism oriented economic development?  While the video boards are nice, there is also a strong argument that they may not be the best use of $43 million in bed tax dollars. However, burying it in a hole kind of defeats the general purpose for there even being a tax.

[KenFSU]

As an FYI, I don't blame Khan. I blame our city government that has continually funded the stadium to the determent of other "quality of life" projects.

Totally understand this opinion, but I would also argue that Jacksonville should prioritize taking care of its existing assets before moving forward with other projects.

Barrs Field/Fairfield Stadium/Gator Bowl/Jacksonville Municipal Stadium/Alltel/Everbank -- whatever you want to call it -- has arguably been Jacksonville's crown jewel for over a century, and a major source of our city's pride and joy. Our continual improvements of the facility have brought Jacksonville widespread recognition and publicity that we otherwise would never have gotten. Because of the money we pumped into our stadium, we became the home of the Florida/Georgia game, we pioneered the sixth oldest bowl game in college football, we hosted Joe Namath and the AFL All-Stars for two consecutive years, when Beatles Mania hit after Ed Sullivan we got the band's only Florida tour date, we got Michael Jackson for three nights, we were the only Florida city to get the Rolling Stones' biggest tour, we received WFL and USFL franchises, we became an NFL city, we hosted the ACC Championship, hell - we got a SUPER BOWL. The recent improvements to Everbank have once-again put our stadium at the very top of the heap, and have positioned Jacksonville to be an event-leader for years to come.

[thelakelander]

I don't blame Kahn.  And I don't dislike the boards.  They are pretty cool, and a pretty forward thinking investment in my opinion.  I wish we had another 12 projects like this going on.

Definitely agree with you here.

[thelakelander]

As an FYI, I don't blame Khan. I blame our city government that has continually funded the stadium to the determent of other "quality of life" projects.

Totally understand this opinion, but I would also argue that Jacksonville should prioritize taking care of its existing assets before moving forward with other projects.

Barrs Field/Fairfield Stadium/Gator Bowl/Jacksonville Municipal Stadium/Alltel/Everbank -- whatever you want to call it -- has arguably been Jacksonville's crown jewel for over a century, and a major source of our city's pride and joy. Our continual improvements of the facility have brought Jacksonville widespread recognition and publicity that we otherwise would never have gotten. Because of the money we pumped into our stadium, we became the home of the Florida/Georgia game, we pioneered the sixth oldest bowl game in college football, we hosted Joe Namath and the AFL All-Stars for two consecutive years, when Beatles Mania hit after Ed Sullivan we got the band's only Florida tour date, we got Michael Jackson for three nights, we were the only Florida city to get the Rolling Stones' biggest tour, we received WFL and USFL franchises, we became an NFL city, we hosted the ACC Championship, hell - we got a SUPER BOWL. The recent improvements to Everbank have once-again put our stadium at the very top of the heap, and have positioned Jacksonville to be an event-leader for years to come.

Everbank Field is a huge asset to this city.  If anything, we should be trying to better benefit from the events it draws by better integrating other activities, transit connectivity, and infill around it.