Jacksonville - one of the most murderous areas in the US!

[The Tim]

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/6tabledatadecpdf

New Orleans-Metairie, LA - 20.6
Memphis, TN-MS-AR - 11.5
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI - 10.9
Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD - 9.5
Birmingham-Hoover, AL - 9.4
Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD - 8.6
Jacksonville, FL - 8.0
Oklahoma City, OK - 8.0
Kansas City, MO-KS - 7.7
St. Louis, MO-IL - 7.3
Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI - 7.1
Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI - 6.9
Richmond, VA - 6.8
Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC - 6.8
San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA - 6.5
Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL - 6.3
Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN - 6.2
Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA - 6.1
Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson, IN - 6.0
Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX - 5.7
Tucson, AZ - 5.7
Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ - 5.3
Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Franklin, TN - 5.1
San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX - 5.1
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA - 5.0
Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL - 5.0

Jacksonville is also the worse in FL. Tampa doesnt show up in the top 25 because it has a murder rate of 3.9, which is one of the lowest in FL and country.

Its also weird how Chicago gets a bum rap, but places like Jacksonville, New Orleans, KC and even Philadelphia get their problems swept under the rug by the media.

[simms3]

Chicago has a way worse rap now that Obama is in office and the problems of southside/westside Chicago are easily brought up.  Obama lived comfortably on the southside in a nice neighborhood.  Some people see it as an easy way to criticize the president for turning a blind eye while there and bla bla bla, and others see it as an opportunity to get the ear of the most powerful man in the world to possibly do something to help the situation.

Jacksonville, frankly, like Memphis and Birmingham, is just not on the map of anything...

Note that this is for metro areas.  If it were for cities, some cities would be lower (San Francisco), and some would be higher (Atlanta, Oakland).

It is funny you mention the media and Philly's problems being swept under the rug.  Comcast is based out of Philadelphia!  I'd say there is some sweeping under the rug there,

[Cheshire Cat]

Remember when looking at these numbers that Jacksonville is the entire county, not a single city like the other areas mentioned.  We are talking over 840 square miles.

[simms3]

^^^No, they are using MSAs.  So Jacksonville is more like 3,500 sq mi in 5 counties.  Jacksonville's murder rate would be worse (reports 93 homicides in 2012 over 840,660 people, so a rate of 11.1).  Gary, IN's metro was "only" 9.3 (I was looking at Chicago to isolate that city).  Chicago was 500 for 2.7 million people, or a rate of 18.5.

San Francisco was 8.4
Oakland was 31.75!!!

Philadelphia was 21.5.

So overall, in 2012, Jacksonville wasn't that bad.  But as was the case for lots of cities, Jax had record low murders that year.  I believe it was as recently as 2007 that the city had over 150, which would have been a murder rate around 20, given population at the time.

[thelakelander]

What the hell is going on in Oakland!

[simms3]

Is that a shocker?  Oakland is crazy, but also livable to many transplants from outside of CA and from SF.  It's become one of my favorite cities for its many stark contrasts and interesting culture.

Oakland is where there were the Occupy Oakland riots at the Port a few years back (someone died, it was national news, etc).  Oakland is also where mobs took over the highways during the George Zimmerman hearing, which made national news and amazing aerial footage of riots walking down highways.  Oakland has the highest rate of car theft in the country, so providing public transit is a concern.  Oakland also has tons of interesting characters from there (Clint Eastwood, Green Day band, Dave Chapelle calls it home now, MC Hammer, etc etc) and a ton of great neighborhoods.  There is no denying, and never has been denial, that it has some of the worst crime in America.  Like insanely bad crime.  But the mentalities of the people there are very different from the mentalities of the crime cities of the SE.  Rappers still rap about social problems there, instead of you know what...

Lake - totally worth a visit.  I promise you that   It's quite an urban city that is mostly walkable (not that there aren't areas you wouldn't want to walk around in).  Amazing views from the hills.  Funky streets and commercial corridors (Telegraph leads right up from downtown/Lake Merritt, which is gorgeous, into Berkeley, which is its own interesting beast).

[JaxJersey-licious]

Seriously, how paranoid and clueless must you be to judge metro areas by their murder rate? And what kind of dimwit thinks a metro area murder rate of 5.1 would significantly be more safer than one that's, say, 7.2? If you need more accurate figures on safety, why not list "attempted" murder rates or overall assault rates?

Regardless, these stats paints a very inaccurate picture of crime in an area since it lumps very low crime sections of town with very high ones laughably (like all murder is spread out equally geographically).

[simms3]

Usually murder and assault rates are not mutually exclusive by any means.  I think you'll find cities with high murder rates almost always also have high rates of aggravated assault.

That said, I agree that judging entire metro areas is pointless.  Every metro area in the country has good and bad areas.  Bloomfield Hills, MI is basically the opposite in every way of Detroit, MI.  But Detroit itself is so bad that even the entire metro area has a relatively high murder rate (and likely high rate of everything else, too).  I doubt there are any murders or serious assaults in many NW suburbs of the city in any given year.  Maybe a gold-digging wife poisoning her husband and playing innocent, but you know, not the drive by variety.

However, judging cities by crime rates is not only commonplace, it holds weight.  If you were the head of a household with 3 small kids, and you could move anywhere in the country, price not being an obstacle, I'd be deadly shocked if you chose Baltimore over Raleigh.  Baltimore is far more interesting (to many of us on this forum), larger, more urban, bla bla bla, however, you wouldn't put your kids in that environment over one that is sterile, safe, clean, and likely with far better schools anyway.

Likewise, if you had $1M to spend on a house in the Bay Area (this gets you a 2 BR ranch in most areas, a 1 BR condo in the city...so there's no runway for that mansion you want), you would probably move to San Mateo County south of SF or Marin County north of SF before you moved into Oakland.  Not to say Oakland doesn't have fine neighborhoods, but you need a lot more than $1M to separate yourself from most of the crime of Oakland.  You can live in the worst community in San Mateo County and still feel relatively safe.  This is all pretty important for a lot of people, especially the elderly and those with kids.

[For_F-L-O-R-I-D-A]

Seriously, how paranoid and clueless must you be to judge metro areas by their murder rate? And what kind of dimwit thinks a metro area murder rate of 5.1 would significantly be more safer than one that's, say, 7.2? If you need more accurate figures on safety, why not list "attempted" murder rates or overall assault rates?

Regardless, these stats paints a very inaccurate picture of crime in an area since it lumps very low crime sections of town with very high ones laughably (like all murder is spread out equally geographically).

Why is Tampa/St.Pete/Clearwater so much lower though? Half the murder rate in an area that is more than double the size of Jacksonville?

One of my former students was murdered last night:

http://www.fox30jax.com/content/topstories/story/Friends-discover-teens-body/7aVZQg9Dd0Kg8HW-6id79w.cspx

[Gamblor]

Is that a shocker?  Oakland is crazy, but also livable to many transplants from outside of CA and from SF.  It's become one of my favorite cities for its many stark contrasts and interesting culture.

Oakland is where there were the Occupy Oakland riots at the Port a few years back (someone died, it was national news, etc).  Oakland is also where mobs took over the highways during the George Zimmerman hearing, which made national news and amazing aerial footage of riots walking down highways.  Oakland has the highest rate of car theft in the country, so providing public transit is a concern.  Oakland also has tons of interesting characters from there (Clint Eastwood, Green Day band, Dave Chapelle calls it home now, MC Hammer, etc etc) and a ton of great neighborhoods.  There is no denying, and never has been denial, that it has some of the worst crime in America.  Like insanely bad crime.  But the mentalities of the people there are very different from the mentalities of the crime cities of the SE.  Rappers still rap about social problems there, instead of you know what...

Lake - totally worth a visit.  I promise you that   It's quite an urban city that is mostly walkable (not that there aren't areas you wouldn't want to walk around in).  Amazing views from the hills.  Funky streets and commercial corridors (Telegraph leads right up from downtown/Lake Merritt, which is gorgeous, into Berkeley, which is its own interesting beast).

As someone who use to live in the Bay area, I approve of this message. Well put Simms

[CityLife]

Seriously, how paranoid and clueless must you be to judge metro areas by their murder rate? And what kind of dimwit thinks a metro area murder rate of 5.1 would significantly be more safer than one that's, say, 7.2? If you need more accurate figures on safety, why not list "attempted" murder rates or overall assault rates?

Regardless, these stats paints a very inaccurate picture of crime in an area since it lumps very low crime sections of town with very high ones laughably (like all murder is spread out equally geographically).

Why is Tampa/St.Pete/Clearwater so much lower though? Half the murder rate in an area that is more than double the size of Jacksonville?

One of my former students was murdered last night:

http://www.fox30jax.com/content/topstories/story/Friends-discover-teens-body/7aVZQg9Dd0Kg8HW-6id79w.cspx

Demographics. Tampa Metro Area has a lot more retirees. Has more wealthy coastal areas and less poverty.

I love my city, but Tampa is the one city in Florida I'm not afraid to admit is better than Jax.

[thelakelander]

I love Tampa. Most of my family lives there. But I'm not sure it's any better than Jax. The area is significantly larger but it's sprawly as hell and politics are pretty backward at times.

[duvaldude08]

I love Tampa. Most of my family lives there. But I'm not sure it's any better than Jax. The area is significantly larger but it's sprawly as hell and politics are pretty backward at times.

I agree. There is not much seperation between Tampa and Jax. I visited there for a few days a couple of years ago and after the second day I was ready to leave. (due to boredum) To me, Tampa is Jax with a theme park LOL As a city, they are slightly more progressive than us, but nothing earth shattering.

[The Tim]

Remember when looking at these numbers that Jacksonville is the entire county, not a single city like the other areas mentioned.  We are talking over 840 square miles.

Its MSAs, so its going to be the Jacksonville city and its suburbs. I think thats better because some cities have high murder rates, but a lot of suburbs don't. Imagine if Chicago or St. Louis started to do what Jacksonville did and suck in all the surrounding areas into its city limits. I'm pretty sure their city murder rate would drop. Also imagine if Jacksonville would shrink back down into a small town, maybe its murder rate would be higher (or possibly lower).

[ChriswUfGator]

I agree Tampa is basically Jacksonville with a theme park. There are still huge differences in the approaches of the two local governments though, which is why downtown Tampa, ybor, etc. aren't ghost towns. But we do suffer the same sprawl problems. We could learn a little (probably not a lot) from Tampa.