Kicking Out the Homeless in Downtown Columbia, South Carolina

[Ocklawaha]

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[Cheshire Cat]

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I think those have already been handed out. lol  I know our local system is taxed already by some of our neighboring counties who don't provide services to the homeless. 

[Bill Hoff]

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More than you know.

[vicupstate]

http://www.free-times.com/cover/no-direction-home

Free Times is the 'Folio Weely' of Columbia and this article seems to be very balanced, and presents the different sides of the issue very well.   This is a key issue that a lot of cities grample with, Jax among them, and there are no easy answers.

[BridgeTroll]

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More than you know.

Another misguided attempt to boost our tourism numbers...

[sheclown]

Papachristou v. Jacksonville, 405 U.S. 156 (1972), was a United States Supreme Court case resulting in a Jacksonville vagrancy ordinance being declared unconstitutionally vague. The case was argued on December 8, 1971 and decided on February 24, 1972. The respondent was the city of Jacksonville, Florida.

Papachristou was one of eight defendants who were convicted for violating a Jacksonville, Florida vagrancy ordinance which forbade a large number of activities including "wandering or strolling around from place to place without any lawful purpose or object". The defendants were charged with several violations under the ordinance: being vagabonds, loitering, being common thieves, disorderly loitering, and resisting arrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papachristou_v._Jacksonville

[BridgeTroll]

wandering or strolling around from place to place without any lawful purpose or object

Thats what I do at lunch... lol

[strider]

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More than you know.

This is a large part of the issue.  Earlier we have knowledgeable posters who state facts like our shelter system is operating at like 60% capacity, that crime is not the issue some would like to believe.  Putting one liners out there like the above is done only to incite rather than inform.  But from Bill Hoff, this a  common concept.

Our non-profit has been serving the alcohol and drug abuse recovery community for 26 years now.  The majority of the guys are legally homeless when they come to us.  In the last ten years, I have seen maybe 1% that were sent to Jacksonville by another area. And only one of those was actually given a ticket and put on a bus.  Not saying that it doesn't happen but that it is not the problem some would like others to believe.  The vast majority of those coming from out of town are doing so on their own.  Even that group may be 2 or 3 % of the guys at best.  Then when you talk to them, you find that many were from Jacksonville to start with, have been gone and are now coming back. Or that they have family here and hope to reconnect.

This one one group of facts.  The shelters may have a different set of numbers, but I would guess our experience is pretty normal. percentage wise at least.

Creating negative hype, like Bill Hoff likes to do, may promote certain agendas, but does very little to actually help solve the problems we face.

[JayBird]

No Strider your numbers are accurate. As a matter of fact Sulzbacher and Trinity will not admit anyone who came from outside Duval County until they've been here 3 days. This was put into policy at both shelters (not affiliated with each other) in 2009 in order to prevent an influx from programs in NYC/LA/SF/DFW/ATL that were giving homeless free/discounted/subsidized Greyhound tickets. The fear was that those passing through Jax Greyhound station would use the shelters as a short term layover for 2-3 days before continuing their journeys.

After this conversation on the board yesterday I had some interesting talks last night. In the past 90 days 1 shelter resident from Sulzbacher was arrested for committing a crime (there were a total of 9 arrests, all the others were unrelated warrants from previous crimes), that is 1 out of 326 individual people provided care during that same time. With Sulzbacher being the largest and the city's primary homeless shelter, I think that is a good barometer of the DT homeless crime situation.

Officer Maria Schofield was on the admitting desk at the PTDF last night and according to her very few homeless are processed there. When they are, it is usually because the officer was showing compassion and allowing them to utilize a shower, eat a meal, and sleep on a mattress with the petty charges being dropped at first appearance in the morning. I do have a problem with that, it costs JSO about $76/night for such a service (in comparison the state spends about $40/day on a prisoner) and the shelters have much less operating costs (Sulzbacher figures $28/night for a sleepover client, Trinity pegs their operations at $19/night for "day-stay") which shows me that the homeless organizations need to work on changing the "shelter stigma" to save that money JSO is currently spending.

[cline]

After this conversation on the board yesterday I had some interesting talks last night. In the past 90 days 1 shelter resident from Sulzbacher was arrested for committing a crime (there were a total of 9 arrests, all the others were unrelated warrants from previous crimes), that is 1 out of 326 individual people provided care during that same time. With Sulzbacher being the largest and the city's primary homeless shelter, I think that is a good barometer of the DT homeless crime situation.

What about the homeless that don't utilize the shelters?  Is it possible that they could account for more crime?

[JayBird]

The only numbers I have for that are from FY2011 that shows 7 arrests of 4 different people whom were arrested within Sector A and did not have an address (this does not include anyone whose arrest was discharged at first appearance the following morning). I highly doubt that there was much of a boom since. In that same year, 43% of the arrests in that sector were public nuisance violations relating to or originating from the Bay Street entertainment area and the Landing. So, at least in 2011, Joe Blow relieving himself or smashing a bottle in the street was more of a threat than the homeless guy sleeping on a bus stop bench. Once again, I doubt a huge boom occurred since then and I'm sure current numbers are about the same.

[CityLife]

After this conversation on the board yesterday I had some interesting talks last night. In the past 90 days 1 shelter resident from Sulzbacher was arrested for committing a crime (there were a total of 9 arrests, all the others were unrelated warrants from previous crimes), that is 1 out of 326 individual people provided care during that same time. With Sulzbacher being the largest and the city's primary homeless shelter, I think that is a good barometer of the DT homeless crime situation.

JayBird, you're a good poster, but this is ridiculous. Everyone knows that Sulzbacher is the cream of the crop of the DT shelters. You pretty much even said so in your first paragraph. They have stricter admission and retention standards than others. Of course they are going to have low arrest numbers. Its not even a remotely decent barometer of the homeless crime situation.

The segment of the homeless population that tends to commit crimes are generally either transients who are stopping through or ones with severe mental health problems that shelters won't take or that don't want to stay at a shelter. You won't find that information at our local shelters.

[JayBird]

Clara White accepts all, they had 0 arrests in past 90 days. City Rescue accepts all, they have had 27 arrests as of Monday since June 1st. Only 9 of those were for crimes that were committed DT, 3 of those were committed on FSCJ DT campus. Trinity has had 8 clients arrested since January 1st, and 5 or 6 of those were from an incident at the landing in May. Even assuming these numbers are regular, that would be less than 150 arrests per year among a population of 1,857 (FY2012 number) individuals served at shelters and living on the street in DT/LaVilla/Sports Complex. That is less 1% of that specific population being arrested. 

(Note: Not challenging any post or being argumentative, just attempting to share what I know of the current situation to those whom have only heard horror stories. Much like the game of telephone, the more a story gets passed among the greater it changes. And I highly doubt that Jax is unique. I am sure the same statistics would apply in any city from NYC to Fresno, but somehow the majority of people feel that the homeless are huge criminal element, and the facts just don't support that.

Like George Carlin said: "they say to watch out for the quiet ones. I don't know about you, but when I'm at the bar and a guy starts screaming and smashes his bottle, I'm not going to be watching the guy in the corner reading a book.")

[JayBird]

Good points. I think it comes in phases. As a culture we feel we have to remove what we don't like to see. 100 years ago all of these types and more were sent out to the country to live in asylums. As Columbia seems to be finding out now, after they enacted this measures, is that not only can they not do it but their own police chief refuses to do it. Part of the blame, and myself included in this, is that we as a society react to some situations out of fear before applying logic or even common sense to the problem. Sometimes, that same fear creates a problem that doesn't even exist.

[sheclown]

exactly jaybird

Live and let live.

Provide toilets and sinks.

I told one guy I know( who likes to talk to himself rather loudly all of the time) "If you sing to yourself, no one will think you are crazy."

It is okay to see a poor person and not have to fix him.  Let him sit there and sing.  Or talk. 

We're all a little bit crazy, some of us just hide it better than others.