Poll: Sons of Confederate Veterans wants old Duval County Armory; Yes or No?

[thelakelander]

Photo courtesy of Simms3

Sitting empty for years, the old Duval County Armory is one of the urban core's most architecturally unique buildings. Built in 1916, it was once home to Florida's largest military drill hall. Mayor Alvin Brown's administration originally considered repurposing the site as a homeless day center but now the Sons of Confederacy wants it. 

What's your position?

Sons of Confederacy want to lease city building
City councilwoman proposes $1 lease in exchange for repairs, maintenance

A city councilwoman wants to let the Sons of Confederate Veterans lease the old Duval County Armory on Market Street downtown for $1 per year in exchange for repairs and maintenance.

Councilwoman Kimberly Daniels sponsored an ordinance that give the group a 10-year lease on the building constructed in 1915-16, with the option for two five-year renewals. The agreement would have the group provide repairs and improvements, general maintenance, including mowing and landscaping, and providing insurance coverage as in-kind contributions in lieu of rent.

"We would have our meetings there," he said. "We would have exhibits there and it would be all militia pertaining to Florida as well as the U.S. It would not be all Civil War. We would also have World War II and so forth."

full article: http://www.news4jax.com/news/sons-of-confederacy-want-to-lease-city-building/-/475880/20538746/-/ca7e9nz/-/index.html

[CityLife]

I'm not going to touch the Confederate thing.....but the city should RFP it, as I'd imagine there may be other organizations with an interest in utilizing the building. Otherwise, it seems like a behind closed doors type of deal. I know there are some serious cleanup and maintenance costs, but a $1 a year lease for 20 years is a pretty sweet deal for the great, great grandsons of the Confederacy.

While the city is at it, does anyone want to put together a development team and try to lease the Old Courthouse with me? It's a pretty prime real estate spot. I'd say worth at least $7 a year.

[Tacachale]

"Maybe" leaning "no". Besides the issues with the group's agenda, we shouldn't just give such an important structure over to any organization without seeing if there are other takers who can provide a better deal for the city and its property.

[KenFSU]

I think we kind of owe it to the taxpayers to see if NAMBLA or Sons of the Third-Reich are interested first...

[thelakelander]

Can we get a $1/year lease going on 9th & Main?

[urbaknight]

Just stamp "Confederate" on something and the city will love you for it and give you anything you want. I asked a cop today, if I were to go to a city council meeting, and they closed down a library or killed another human right bill, would I get into trouble with the law if I burned a confederate flag outside of city hall after the meeting? The cop said I had the right to free speech.


So who wants to piss off the GOB with me!?

[Cheshire Cat]

The return of the "Dollar Deal" is a very bad idea.  Is this really about putting an old building to good use or is it more like using "public assets" to enhance the personal and political agenda's of some.  For those who don't follow the "Dollar Deals" this city has in the past handed out to certain groups and individuals you should know that it is rarely if ever about the effective use of public properties.  Let me give you one of many, many examples.  The biggest one that I have personally witnessed, researched and in some cases thwarted.  In this instance the dealings impacted and in some cases helped fuel the destruction of the La Villa community.  The Genovar Hall building was one of those failed "Dollar Deals" created and fueled by councilman Warren Jones, councilman Reggie Fullwood and then DDA Director Al Battle.  The recipients of this dollar deal actually ended up getting the building sold to them by the city for $10.00.  The political lever was that in order for certain agenda's to proceed in LaVilla, unimpeded by Black politicians who may otherwise object to the destruction of an historically Black community, you give away some public land goodies to the right people.  In the mix of these "Dollar Dealings" we saw three shotgun houses moved next to the Genovar structure at a cost to the city of 100K, that were to be another "deal" in the property and land land grab by a local, politically connected fraternity to create "The LaVilla Experience", brainchild of councilman Reggie Fullwood, which was a proposed park (using city funds) with the Genovar Structure being used as an anchor, restaurant and bar owned by this fraternity. It was being sold as a "charity museum" with the actually plans moving through the city showing a bar, lounge and outside stage.   Brewster hospital was set to be relocated to the same parcel at nearly 200K of taxpayers expense to become another "Dollar Deal" for a local Dentist.  This type of deal making is for gaining favors, securing public properties for private use at a cost of next to nothing with the added bonus of the poltical backing of those on the receiving end of such dealings.  Kimberly Daniels is not the first to embrace the "Dollar Deal" but may represent the most recent attempt to return to this type of dealing.  It's not what it seems, although it can be painted as an altruistic endeavor.  In the case of LaVilla and the fraternity, it they had been allowed to continue unchallenged was on track to secure several blocks of LaVilla land as well as structures for next to nothing.

An RFP needs to be issued regarding the use of this building and others currently owned by the city.  I am not against offering deals of reduced rents to put activity into a building and in some cases would encourage it, but to the "Dollar Deal" concept I say not only no but in most cases "Hell No"!

[JaxUnicorn]

I agree that the City should put an open bid out to any organization to see if there is interest.  They City should see what other interest there is in the building, if any. 

Should it go for $1/year?  Probably not.  Why not do a full construction/restoration bid for the property.  Have the tenant put some funds down to get the restoration started, then based on the lease term, divide the remaining cost of restoration over a period within the lease.  That would be the "lease payment".

[Demosthenes]

The basement in that building has had significant water intrusion. Maintenance of that building will be no small/inexpensive task.

Im actually ok with a dollar deal if the alternative is to leave it empty for years.

Side Note: Jacksonville was occupied 4 times, which covered much of the war, and had a large union loyal residential contingent. A union war museum seems more appropriate.

[JaxUnicorn]

Oh, FWIW, this building is NOT in historic Springfield.  Close, but not within the district.  It is a part of the downtown core.

[Cheshire Cat]

The basement in that building had had significant water intrusion. Maintenance of that building will be no small/inexpensive task.

Im actually ok with a dollar deal if the alternative is to leave it empty for years.

Side Note: Jacksonville was occupied 4 times, and was under occupation much of the war and had a large union loyal resident contingent. A union war museum seems more appropriate.

These deals don't work and there is no oversight at all to make sure that the things agreed upon, in this case maintenance, is ever properly done.  You mention the water intrusion problem.  Will this be a small fix or something major?  How do we know if the Confederate group can afford to deal with such issues?  There would have to be a complete inspection of the property as well as a "punch list" of items that the group renting would repair and maintain as a part of the agreement, then a city employee or employees would have to continually check to see if the agreements were kept.  Lastly we then have a city property tied up by contract for 10 years in this case which would impact the ability of the city to rent to someone who could pay market value rent on the structure as well as the ability to sell it.  Not a good idea and opens wide the doors for other private organizations to ask for similar deals on other public structures.  Further with the selection of a Director to oversee the newly formed DIA, perhaps we should see what the new director and board think is the best use for the structure might be.  Maybe the best idea would be to have the property appraised and then have the city offer it for sale at a reasonable or even discounted value.

[thelakelander]

Oh, FWIW, this building is NOT in historic Springfield.  Close, but not within the district.  It is a part of the downtown core.

It's actually in "no man's" land. Downtown's official border is across State Street.  That's why the McDonald's and 7-Eleven down the street have two completely different site layout patterns.  7-Eleven was designed to downtown's design guidelines because it fell within its official borders and McDonald's put up their typical box and parking lot because it's outside of the border.

[Demosthenes]

All very valid concerns. But again, if the alternative is a total lack of maintenance, eventual condemning, and demolition.... I like the dollar deal, even as a stop gap to save a great building like the armory.

Lake mentioned 9th and Main. When was that building last used? 2009?

The Child Care facility at 1st and APR? 2008?

What about Jax Seafood in Lavilla? Never?

Jax sucks at managing property, and it seldom ends well.

[thelakelander]

The basement in that building had had significant water intrusion. Maintenance of that building will be no small/inexpensive task.

Im actually ok with a dollar deal if the alternative is to leave it empty for years.

Side Note: Jacksonville was occupied 4 times, and was under occupation much of the war and had a large union loyal resident contingent. A union war museum seems more appropriate.

These deals don't work and there is no oversight at all to make sure that the things agreed upon, in this case maintenance, is ever properly done.  You mention the water intrusion problem.  Will this be a small fix or something major?  How do we know if the Confederate group can afford to deal with such issues?  There would have to be a complete inspection of the property as well as a "punch list" of items that the group renting would repair and maintain as a part of the agreement, then a city employee or employees would have to continually check to see if the agreements were kept.  Lastly we then have a city property tied up by contract for 10 years in this case which would impact the ability of the city to rent to someone who could pay market value rent on the structure as well as the ability to sell it.  Not a good idea and opens wide the doors for other private organizations to ask for similar deals on other public structures.  Further with the selection of a Director to oversee the newly formed DIA, perhaps we should see what the new director and board think is the best use for the structure might be.  Maybe the best idea would be to have the property appraised and then have the city offer it for sale at a reasonable or even discounted value.

This property isn't within the jurisdiction of the DIA.  It's one of a few blocks between State Street and Hogans Creek, that isn't Springfield or downtown. 

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks for the clarification Ennis.  In that case, we should still put out an RFP for the building or appraise it and put it up for sale.  Clearly the city "stinks" when it comes to properly maintaining public property or willingness to appropriate proper funding to do so.