Huge new development proposed on Fishweir Creek and St. John's Ave

[thelakelander]

Don't a lot of developers first come out with a huge square feet number, knowing most likely they would have to go with a smaller scale?

From my experience, in the conceptual stage it's always good to be aware of what the maximum allowable number may be.  This is useful in further defining what the right mix of retail and residential or "highest and best use" may be for your proforma.  The highest maximum number allowable by code doesn't always equal out to the most financially feasible. 

Depending on the site, context, soil conditions, etc., more units over a certain point could easily mean a different structural system, foundation, extra floors, elevators, circulation, etc., that may not be worth the extra investment. So it's not out of the realm of realistic possibility that the total number of units could shift up or down, depending on what the market, site conditions and developer's proforma may indicate.  The important thing at this stage should be for all parties to keep open lines of communication going with the will to work together for a final product that's a benefit to everyone.

[tufsu1]

Don't a lot of developers first come out with a huge square feet number, knowing most likely they would have to go with a smaller scale?

From my experience, in the conceptual stage it's always good to be aware of what the maximum allowable number may be.  This is useful in further defining what the right mix of retail and residential or "highest and best use" may be for your proforma.  The highest maximum number allowable by code doesn't always equal out to the most financially feasible. 

exactly...especially when seeking comp. plan and/or zoning amendments, it is usually desirable to propose the maximum feasible...that way, all impact analyses are done on the "worst case scenario"

[Ocklawaha]

Well shazam! There was a rebuildable old streetcar line from 5 Points and passing this property on Herschel Street, I'm guessing about 200' feet from this property's front door... MOBILITY ANYONE?

[PeeJayEss]

More importantly - does this mean The Loop will be closing?  I can't support this proposal, then!

We now we return you to serious discussion ... 

I hope they would be smart enough to offer them a decent option in the retail space they are creating.    I would be angry to lose my Loop Portabella grilled mushroom sammich!  See Charles, you and I have our priorities straight I do believe.  lol

I bet the Loop would be happy to have a location in a new building where their business is actually visible. Their current location is probably the most hidden restaurant in Jax. They probably lose a quarter of their business to people that find it on a map, get there, and can't locate it from the parking lot. They probably lose even more by not being visible along St Johns...

[cline]

Several speakers expressed concerns about the increase in traffic and that the size of the development is out of scale for the neighborhood.

One speaker brought up a new concern.  Fishweir Elementary School is directly across the street and the children of the apartment renters would have to go there and it is already at capacity.

3. In terms of traffic, final development density and scale aside, it seems like this would be a great opportunity to address the intersection of Herschel and St. Johns in a context sensitive manner.  If done right, that should result in a safety enhancement for the community.

I agree.  The intersection, as it stands today, is in no way pedestrian friendly.  The width of the lanes and the geometry of the intersection make it next to impossible to cross on foot from one side to the other.  Kind of reminds me of trying to use the crosswalk at the intersection at Forrest & Park- much too wide. 

While I have no problems with increasing the number of DUs, I would like to see the developer preserve access to the Fishweir via a riverwalk or something along those lines.  If he adds a kayak launch as was mentioned- that would be awesome.  Access to the river needs to be increased in the RA neighborhood.  Simms, to your point about how "Fishweir Creek is a dirty, dried up creek with old barnacle covered pilings sticking out and trash strewn about."  There is currently a project to address this.  It would be awesome if the developer contributed to the cost of the dredging and restoration project that is soon going to take place at Fishweir Creek.  That is an important project that will vastly help that long neglected waterway- both aesthetically and, more importantly, ecologically.

[Josh]

Dredging the creek will help, but as long as septic tanks are leaking into it the water will remain pretty gross.

[cline]

Dredging the creek will help, but as long as septic tanks are leaking into it the water will remain pretty gross.

This is true.  However, as part of the Better Jax Plan COJ implemented a septic tank phase out program so hopefully, some of the septic issues have been eliminated.  Water quality is only part of the issue though.  Sedimentation is also a major issue that needs to be addressed through dredging.  The Fishweir Creek restoration project is probably discussion for another thread though.  I don't want to hijack this one too much

[Dog Walker]

Councilman Jim Love has called a neighborhood meeting which will include the developers for Monday, May 13, 7:00PM at the FSCJ Kent Campus Auditorium.

[Trixie]

Hopefully the application for the proposed land use amendment ("CGC" to "HDR") for the shopping center parcel, and the related companion zoning application ("PUD") for the shopping center parcel and the Commander Apartments parcel, will both be complete by the Community Meeting.

Whatever is in the PUD rules the day, unless subsequently amended.  Once City Council approves a PUD, it runs with the land, so that today's land owner, or the subsequent land owner, may use it.

While the developer said they had certain "less than maximum" intentions at the Preview Workshop, I would keep an eye on the actual language of the PUD, rather than resting on verbal assurances.  As many people here have noted, a developer has the option to ask for the maximum in the PUD and then adjust from there in a build out, or not adjust, to suit.

Thanks for the scoop about the Community Meeting, Dog Walker! 

[Intuition Ale Works]

Trixie-

What is your agenda?

You have only posted about this subject and sound very learned in the zoning laws of this city.

[Trixie]

Hi, Intuition Ale Works, pleased to meet you.  (And, your beer rocks!)  I live in Avondale and, like many others, will be impacted by the outcome of St. Johns Village Center project.  Hence, I was motivated to jump in here.

[Kaiser Soze]

Not sure I understand all this talk about parking decks and traffic.  All Kaiser wants to know is what are the chances we get a decent nudie bar out of this???  SOS has gone downhill since damn TD Bank opened up shop next door.  Nudie bar with a view of the crick sounds awfully pleasant.

[Trixie]

Thanks, stephendare. 

And, no worries on the nudie bar, Kaiser!  When the PUD comes out you may review the permitted non-residential uses very carefully and see whether a nudie bar is requested and subsequently passes muster with City Council - lol.  In fact, I hope everyone reviews the non-residential (commercial/retail/professional) uses of the PUD very carefully and notes the square footage requested for such items, as they could be added to the total square footage of the residential units requested in the project. 

This land is pretty tricky for any developer because of the shape of the lot, the traffic patterns, and the water.  As a developer, you may elect to feature Fishweir Creek for your tenants (since it could arguably be a draw post dredging), but you must provide parking.  Hmm...so maybe you want to jam the parking into some kind of garage on St. Johns Avenue.  Hmm...but wait, are there any mandates of the 2008 Riverside/Avondale Overlay that say you cannot just plunk the parking garage on St. Johns Avenue, or that say buildings of a certain kind can be no more than a given height in this area?  Then there are the traffic concerns - bummer.  In addition to those homes that are right on St. Johns Avenue nearby, there are also pockets of multiple homes nearby where the only way in and out of the neighborhood is St. Johns Avenue, unless one uses a boat to cross the St. Johns River.

Keep your eye on the PUD.   ; )

[Jumpinjack]

Here's hoping the new Context Sensitive Streets design guidelines will be in place for this development. They would make a real difference.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I just kind of wish they would close down St. Johns Ave from.... let's say Hungry Howies to Dancy and leave it open for only pedestrians, bicyclists and motorcycles. 

That little 1/3mile stretch is one of the better ones in Jax.