$400,000.00 for a Downtown park the size of a basketball court

[Cheshire Cat]

I really can't get over the fact that a Jacksonville entity is not designing a space that is being promoted as a doorway to downtown.  Do we value our own people and skills so little?

Part of my issue with this space is I understand they are promoting it as a doorway but really isn't.  You can't access that space directly or even see it from Main Street without turning left on Bay, left on Laura and then another left on Independent.  We could put a ferris wheel in there and it would still be a bad space because of the hole it's in.  From the aerial rendering, it doesn't appear to be that bad to me.  It may very we'll have amenities in it that will be seldom used when completed.  Any idea on what was the original proposed scope of work for the FDOT money potentially involved?

Agreed.  How would a play space have worked?  Just curious as to how you see that and if it could still be done at some point.

Nothing elaborate.  Basically upgrading playground equipment and amenities within existing parks, such as this space in downtown Orlando:

To your first point Ennis, I must say I agree and imagine that promoting this as a "doorway" is actually meant to sell the concept to powers in city hall in order to fund it.  As far as who would use an interactive space I think it is important not to overlook the fact that people outside of Jacksonville do come to the Chamber to get information and learn more about our city.  I can't help but think that a more attractive and interactive space would help to impress new comers as well as investors visiting Jacksonville.  It's about time that all of our efforts downtown say, this city can think and act out of the box.  "I want out of the box!"    We can do better than the design currently being offered and I would love the design to be a creative statement made by someone in Jacksonville.

To the second point "I LOVE IT"!   This is what we should see happening in Jacksonville!

[thelakelander]

As far as who would use an interactive space I think it is important not to overlook the fact that people outside of Jacksonville do come to the Chamber to get information and learn more about our city.  I can't help but think that a more attractive and interactive space would help to impress new comers as well as investors visiting Jacksonville.  It's about time that all of our efforts downtown say, this city can think and act out of the box.  "I want out of the box!"    We can do better than the design currently being offered and I would love the design to be a creative statement made by someone in Jacksonville.

I honestly think, by the time a visitor figures out how to get to the front door of the chamber, the downtown image has already been shattered. To get there, you pass blocks and blocks of parking garages, limited street retail, essentially no dining and the backside of the Landing to then pull up to a suburban office building. Oh, and hopefully you have GPS because there's no street signage to direct you, while spinning around our maze of uncoordinated one-way streets. The best way to enhance the sense of arrival is to have a street (or a few blocks) filled with pedestrian scale activity. Anything sort of that is a band aid that helps us pat ourselves on the back but still leaves the average visitor unimpressed.

[fsujax]

Lake, they are along Broad St mostly, where no sidewalk exist. I call them goat trails, worn paths in the grass. Others call them something else.  Diane, I think Lake summed it up for me. I wouldnt mind seeing the 400k spent on sprucing up the courthouse yard and making it pedestrian friendly.

[coredumped]

Video and correct link:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/-400K-to-be-spent-on-tiny-downtown-park/-/475880/19208350/-/y1ppehz/-/index.html

http://www.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/_557781/uiconf_id/12283731/entry_id/0_brbj14wm

[PeeJayEss]

Some journalistic excellence right there.

One positive that I am now noticing is this will give the front door an actual front entrance to the street. Not sure why that was missing in the first place.

[cline]

I really can't get over the fact that a Jacksonville entity is not designing a space that is being promoted as a doorway to downtown.  Do we value our own people and skills so little?

The Chamber doesn't care about a doorway to downtown.  If they did, they would offer to move and have that entire parcel turned to something cool like in the pics lake posted.  They just want to have a sweet landscaping job done for their new building without really paying for it.  That's what it comes down to.  And in the end that is what will happen.

[Cheshire Cat]

FSU, I see your point and would agree, however I do believe the funds when spent will go to the Chamber park.  Considering that I think we need a better plan.

When I say think out of the box, I am saying that with each effort to improve any area downtown, we should perhaps give some degree of attention to what we are trying to say about downtown and Jacksonville.  Now you can all correct me if I am wrong (I'm sure you will, lol) but what is the Chamber trying to say about our city?  For instance, there is a great deal of focus on international interest and promoting Jacksonville as a shipping center.  So how can we say that in the space in front of the Chamber?  Consider what I was saying about creative design.  If we want to say something about the city and our goals in this regard, why not design a space with elements that suggest that.  (I am going to insert a link here and perhaps one of you would be kind enough to post the picture  http://sh-blog.com/2013/02/12/building-study-shipping-containers/).  For instance, using this link take a look at what can be done with large scale shipping containers and how a design element including covered seating areas with brightly colored transformed containers could not only provide seating, but also become an artistic element that also says shipping. Of course anything we did would have to have more of an open element to it.  Add to this lighting for the evening hours that would showcase these areas and then incorporate the water feature with the shipping containers in some way. Perhaps the port could assist with some funding.  This is just fodder for thought mind you.  I am trying to illustrate that a more creative bent to what we do downtown, even in increments can help to build our story. 

Cline, I agree with your take on the "doorway" and paid for landscaping.  Clearly that is what this is about, but taking that into consideration along with the expectation that the funding will be spent, why not make it something more creative and meaningful as a message about downtown?

[Pinky]

Woo, another so-called "park" to add to our enormous list of tiny mediocre city parks that no one uses. Yee haw!

pocket parks can be a great thing in downtown environments

So can streetlights, and mowed medians.

[Cheshire Cat]

Pinky, you must have missed the big news a couple of days back.  The mayor found some "magic money", unspent in the budget and he is using that to turn on the streetlights and mow the medians.  No word yet as to which city piggy bank held the magic funds. Mayor apparently calls it "found" money. 


Here you go:

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/timothy-gibbons/2013-03-04/jacksonville-mayor-alvin-brown-proposes-using-found

[Charles Hunter]

Pinky, you must have missed the big news a couple of days back.  The mayor found some "magic money", unspent in the budget and he is using that to turn on the streetlights and mow the medians.  No word yet as to which city piggy bank held the magic funds. Mayor apparently calls it "found" money. 


Here you go:

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/timothy-gibbons/2013-03-04/jacksonville-mayor-alvin-brown-proposes-using-found

Sofa cushions ... happens every time they vacuum.

[Pinky]

Pinky, you must have missed the big news a couple of days back.  The mayor found some "magic money", unspent in the budget and he is using that to turn on the streetlights and mow the medians.  No word yet as to which city piggy bank held the magic funds. 

I did miss that.  That's definitely good news, as those sort of things definitely influence a lot more people's opinion of Jacksonville than this tiny sliver of downtown ever would.

Which leads me to my next point, which has already been touched on by Lake-  The parcel in question is hardly "the front door to Jax".  I live barely a quarter mile from it, and have NEVER, not once, EVER passed it.  I actually had to google map it to figure out exactly where is is!  And this from a guy who walks and bikes the area several times a week..  It's not visible from any of the ramps, and is only passed by folks who proceed east through the traffic circle in front of the Landing, which is a pretty minuscule number of people.

Call me cynical, but this screams of yet another example of a few powerful people in this town using taxpayer money for projects which only serve themselves.  If the Chamber wants some spiffy landscaping for the front of their building they should buck-up and pay for it themselves.  I can't imagine the city turning down their offer to improve the "park".

[Cheshire Cat]

Pinky, a lot of people are asking the same questions you are.  That doesn't make you cynical, just a citizen who is paying attention and that is a good thing I do believe.  You may not have read all the thread but the Chamber building is owned by the city as is the park land.  The deal I believe is that state money (still tax money) will be used to do the park and the Chamber will maintain it.   Others in this conversation have pointed out that these funds might be better spent elsewhere  but it is my guess the Chamber will get the park improvements to go with improvements made to the building interior which were privately funded and cost about 3 million.

[Tacachale]

Come on. The chamber's putting millions into the renovations and they've found state money to clean up what's technically a public park, including a bunch of money from a cancelled project, so local money isnt needed. If it includes reworking that awful parking lot, the cost isn't so outrageous. Other than some possible opportunity cost and design gripes, I don't see the issue here.

[Charles Hunter]

Just checked the City GIS website, and it says the building, and the land it is on, and the parking lot on the east side of the block, are owned by the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce.  Don't know where the idea came from that the City owns the Chamber building.  Or is the Property Appraiser wrong?
http://apps.coj.net/PAO_PropertySearch/Basic/Detail.aspx?RE=0744550000

[tufsu1]

lol. 

Welcome the the "Under the Bus Tour" with your guide, TUFSU,.....The first throw is a little rough.

guess you can give me some guidance