$400,000.00 for a Downtown park the size of a basketball court

[jason_contentdg]

Shoot, many on this site could come up with something much better. 

folks who are on this site developed the concept

lol.  and they are very nice guys---who I know for a fact appreciate public comment and response----  but they still could have come up with something better, technically there is always room for improvement.

For example, designing the park for active programming --like an outdoor workout and stretching area with covered spaces for runners and bikers in the rain, or a basketball court, or a climbing wall or a public croquet green, or a rollerblading circle with seats around it....

This is the direction that most of the big cities are going with small public spaces,  it makes New York a wonderful wonderful place to live in fact.

Exactly!  This space could be made much more attractive and needs to be softened.  Come on "Content Design Group", you can do much better than his uninspired anywhere USA design.  A space designed with a use a Stephen suggested makes much more sense and would create activity which translates to life in the core.  Less angles, more creativity and natural color via plantings please. 

I am positive the Chamber had plenty of input on this as well and to them I say, you need to do better in presenting Jacksonville in a welcoming creative light.  A sizable piece of outside art would be a great addition.  Interactive art even better.  Look, unless the public speaks up and says "run of the mill design" isn't enough, we will continue to get run of the mill design.  I in no way mean to disrespect what I am sure are the fine folk of CDG.  I only challenge them to do better.  I know you can.

Content Design Group's scope of work includes the interior design, the entry canopy, and building signage.  All urban planning, landscape, and site design was done by another group.

[urbaknight]

I think it looks ok, I just don't want to pay for it. I read earlier on this thread that it wasn't on out tab anyway.

[Cheshire Cat]

Why not interface with the Arts Community of Jacksonville in the CORK?  Lets get creative in downtown. 

[Cheshire Cat]

So who did the park design?  CDG, glad to know the design isn't yours. 

Urbanknight, this project is still using tax dollars paid in by people in Florida, so in some ways it is still on our tab.  I have no problem with it since we are talking Chamber who in fact represent our city.  I just know we can do a more attractive and innovative space and feel there is probably time left to reach out to the creative elements of our city for input. 

[thelakelander]

I respect that Ennis, I just don't agree.  We need more than the greening of an asphalt parking lot as an introduction to downtown. 

I guess my stance is from this type of viewpoint. Out of all the things currently needed to create a vibrant downtown, this ranks pretty low on the priority list, given the location. There's virtually no foot traffic here and the bridge ramps pretty much kill off connectivity to adjacent properties. You could literally put Disney inside this space and the economic spinoff would be limited due to the immediate context.  I'd probably argue that anything someone can suggest to improve this space, other than laying sod and a few trees, their suggestion would be better off in other spaces throughout downtown.

If there is a movement to stir up various groups to put time and energy into improving a space, let's address real public spaces that people actually use downtown and that have the ability to stimulate private sector economic development on properties surrounding them. Off the top of my head, Hemming, the new Courthouse Plaza, the  riverwalks, the Shipyards, Metro Park,  the parks along Hogans Creek, etc. all should be a higher priority. 

[Cheshire Cat]

lol !

I have been told the designer is "Marquis Halback in St Augustine."  I would say thank you to that group for taking the time to do this gratis for Jacksonville.  So thank you!  I have to follow that remark up with a question as to why no one in Jacksonville could do the same?   It's beginning to look like some folks in decision making rolls were shopping around for a friend or business associate to do a "freebee!"  Free is nice, but come on Jacksonville Chamber you are reps for "JACKSONVILLE" not another city.   Look to our citizens and creative personalities please.

[fsujax]

I agree Ennis. The courthouse issue to me is much more important. By the way anyone else noticing all the goat trails forming where sidewalks should be at the courthouse? what a disaster.

[Cheshire Cat]

I hear you Ennis and you know I "very much" appreciate you expertise in these matters.  My view is that we in Jacksonville must view every action in downtown as important to our future.  The planner in you will clearly weigh this out and categorize it's importance in one fashion, while others of us may see the opportunity to do something a bit more unique and special in that space.  If it is worth investing in, it is worth making it a creative space.  This design puts me in mind of the mess in front of the Main Library.  An ugly, concrete weed patch that cost us around 700K if memory serves me.  We need to ask more of our city and creative class. 

[thelakelander]

I agree Ennis. The courthouse issue to me is much more important. By the way anyone else noticing all the goat trails forming where sidewalks should be at the courthouse? what a disaster.

Goat trails?  I haven't walked it in a few months.  I'm sure there has to be a trail forming between the front door and the food trucks at Jefferson and Adams, along with the stretches of Broad and Pearl that don't have sidewalks.

[Cheshire Cat]

fsujax, what courthouse issue in particular would be impacted by focusing on a better space in front of the chamber?  Not a challenge, just a question.

Are you suggesting the money for this "park" project go to the courthouse?

[thelakelander]

I hear you Ennis and you know I "very much" appreciate you expertise in these matters.  My view is that we in Jacksonville must view every action in downtown as important to our future.  The planner in you will clearly weigh this out and categorize it's importance in one fashion, while others of us may see the opportunity to do something a bit more unique and special in that space.  If it is worth investing in, it is worth making it a creative space.  This design puts me in mind of the mess in front of the Main Library.  An ugly, concrete weed patch that cost us around 700K if memory serves me.  We need to ask more of our city and creative class. 

That's a small space that should have never been built.  If I recall, the money had to spent on a public space adjacent to an FDOT road. To be honest, I probably would have split it up to install new playscapes at as many parks across the city on FDOT roads as possible.  As for the Main Street space, it should have been left a surface parking lot and RFP'd for infill development.

[thelakelander]

fsujax, what courthouse issue in particular would be impacted by focusing on a better space in front of the chamber?  Not a challenge, just a question.

Are you suggesting the money for this "park" project go to the courthouse?

Time and effort would be my immediate answer.  In a few months, the way things are going, Hemming may lose most of its trees and benches and the courthouse space will still be bad, despite probably getting more foot traffic than Hemming now.  As for money, if public cash is going to the chamber space, I'd be in favor of that cash being moved to something else even if it means they have to lose their water feature.

[Cheshire Cat]

fsujax, what courthouse issue in particular would be impacted by focusing on a better space in front of the chamber?  Not a challenge, just a question.

Are you suggesting the money for this "park" project go to the courthouse?

Time and effort would be my immediate answer.  In a few months, the way things are going, Hemming may lose most of its trees and benches and the courthouse space will still be bad, despite probably getting more foot traffic than Hemming now.  As for money, if public cash is going to the chamber space, I'd be in favor of that cash being moved to something else even if it means they have to lose their water feature.

I cannot fault your logic here Ennis but would suppose the folks in the Chamber would fight to keep the funding for the space in front of their building.  In my view, a creative and functional space is the way to go because I am pretty sure the money will be spent.  I really can't get over the fact that a Jacksonville entity is not designing a space that is being promoted as a doorway to downtown.  Do we value our own people and skills so little?

[Cheshire Cat]

I hear you Ennis and you know I "very much" appreciate you expertise in these matters.  My view is that we in Jacksonville must view every action in downtown as important to our future.  The planner in you will clearly weigh this out and categorize it's importance in one fashion, while others of us may see the opportunity to do something a bit more unique and special in that space.  If it is worth investing in, it is worth making it a creative space.  This design puts me in mind of the mess in front of the Main Library.  An ugly, concrete weed patch that cost us around 700K if memory serves me.  We need to ask more of our city and creative class. 

That's a small space that should have never been built.  If I recall, the money had to spent on a public space adjacent to an FDOT road. To be honest, I probably would have split it up to install new playscapes at as many parks across the city on FDOT roads as possible.  As for the Main Street space, it should have been left a surface parking lot and RFP'd for infill development.

Agreed.  How would a play space have worked?  Just curious as to how you see that and if it could still be done at some point.

[thelakelander]

I really can't get over the fact that a Jacksonville entity is not designing a space that is being promoted as a doorway to downtown.  Do we value our own people and skills so little?

Part of my issue with this space is I understand they are promoting it as a doorway but really isn't.  You can't access that space directly or even see it from Main Street without turning left on Bay, left on Laura and then another left on Independent.  We could put a ferris wheel in there and it would still be a bad space because of the hole it's in.  From the aerial rendering, it doesn't appear to be that bad to me.  It may very we'll have amenities in it that will be seldom used when completed.  Any idea on what was the original proposed scope of work for the FDOT money potentially involved?

Agreed.  How would a play space have worked?  Just curious as to how you see that and if it could still be done at some point.

Nothing elaborate.  Basically upgrading playground equipment and amenities within existing parks, such as this space in downtown Orlando: