The Death of Springfield's Resurgence

[Bike Jax]

Hi gang. I'm pretty new here and want say how much I have been enjoying reading Metro Jax.

This past Sunday I spent the day riding my bike around Springfield enjoying the beauty of it and taking pictures. I visit friends often in Springfield from my home in Riverside via a route that never takes me down Main St.
  
This past Sunday while Riding around I was stunned at the state of Main St.. I had to take a couple of pictures and post my views to Bike Jax.

http://bikejax.blogspot.com/2008/02/death-of-springfields-resurgence.html

[thelakelander]

The medians limiting access definately are another negative that businesses on Main Street will have to overcome.  However, from what I understand, all even numbered streets will have median cuts from 4th up to 12th.  As for no crosswalks, it appears that everyone laid down and let FDOT do what they wanted to speed traffic up, as opposed to slowing it down and making it more liveable, pedestrian and bike-friendly.

[JeffreyS]

They love to put the medians in Springfield rip them out, put them in rip them out and so on.

[downtownparks]

I think there is discussion ongoing about making crosswalks in the existing island now, and I believe the new stuff will include it.

Personally, I am glad they are there, so that eventually we can have that space for trolleys again.... :-)

[thelakelander]

Once we overcome the fact that there are no rail transit lines running in the middle of state highways in Florida, I don't think the island is wide enough for duel streetcar lines.  Instead, tracks would have to be installed in the inside lanes of Main Street and stops constructed in the medians.

[second_pancake]

I haven't read Bike's blog yet, but I LOL when I saw that you'd been riding around there on Sunday...my husband and I were there too!  We too, were completely shocked at the state of the area.  There were 55 gallon drums sitting to rust in the corner of Confederate park.  The railings were rusted out and missing.  The sidewalks were overgrown, and there were locked gates at the foot of bridges.  Driving down Main St., as well as Pearl, and 8th streets, we had an overwhelming sense of danger.  Yes, there were people out on their porches every 10th house or so, and some of them looked like they were enjoying the day and not just standing around looking for a 'mark' of sorts, though those were few and far between. 

What we took back with us was the thought of how could anyone feel safe living there.  With groups of people drinking out of brown paper bags, huddled on the street corner, staring at you as you drive by and yelling things (things we didn't stick around long enough to actually comprehend), how could you leave your home to do anything?  We also noted that with the exception of a group of teenagers walking out of one of the parks (headed back to downtown), we saw no one walking, jogging, going into or out of shops as you would see in various other parts of Jacksonville.  Certainly not any one with young children...thank goodness.  The only people in the heart of Springfield walking around were obviously up to no good (see the brown-baggers comment above).  It really saddened me, especially when you look at the houses that have been restored...and the ones that haven't, that have so much potential and beauty under their crappy asbestos siding.  One can definitely see that Springfield was a very elite place to live at one point in history.

I also went by the Klutho house (pictures of which are in the Springfield photo tour here), and was surprised to see that all the lower windows and doors had iron security bars over them.  My husband remarked about the wicker furniture on the front porch, saying, "I wonder how many times the owners have walked out in the morning to find someone sleeping there?"  Judging from the bottle of liquor that was sitting on top of the brick fencepost, my guess would be, often.

[jason_contentdg]

I haven't read Bike's blog yet, but I LOL when I saw that you'd been riding around there on Sunday...my husband and I were there too!  We too, were completely shocked at the state of the area.  There were 55 gallon drums sitting to rust in the corner of Confederate park.  The railings were rusted out and missing.  The sidewalks were overgrown, and there were locked gates at the foot of bridges.  Driving down Main St., as well as Pearl, and 8th streets, we had an overwhelming sense of danger.  Yes, there were people out on their porches every 10th house or so, and some of them looked like they were enjoying the day and not just standing around looking for a 'mark' of sorts, though those were few and far between. 

What we took back with us was the thought of how could anyone feel safe living there.  With groups of people drinking out of brown paper bags, huddled on the street corner, staring at you as you drive by and yelling things (things we didn't stick around long enough to actually comprehend), how could you leave your home to do anything?  We also noted that with the exception of a group of teenagers walking out of one of the parks (headed back to downtown), we saw no one walking, jogging, going into or out of shops as you would see in various other parts of Jacksonville.  Certainly not any one with young children...thank goodness.  The only people in the heart of Springfield walking around were obviously up to no good (see the brown-baggers comment above).  It really saddened me, especially when you look at the houses that have been restored...and the ones that haven't, that have so much potential and beauty under their crappy asbestos siding.  One can definitely see that Springfield was a very elite place to live at one point in history.

I also went by the Klutho house (pictures of which are in the Springfield photo tour here), and was surprised to see that all the lower windows and doors had iron security bars over them.  My husband remarked about the wicker furniture on the front porch, saying, "I wonder how many times the owners have walked out in the morning to find someone sleeping there?"  Judging from the bottle of liquor that was sitting on top of the brick fencepost, my guess would be, often.

Oh God, I just now realized how unsafe I am living in Springfield.  What am I doing enjoying living in this neighborhood amongst these chaotic barbaric conditions..

[second_pancake]

Joe,

Maybe you're used to seeing what I saw.  Alot of people that have posted here have mentioned having lived in New York city and such...I haven't.  While the homeless don't bother me that much, and the occasional drunk or crazy person I can ignore, I would have a hard time living next to a house that was condemned by the city, or trying to walk to the corner store for a pop and being greeting by 10 large men, dressed in winter coats while it's 80 degrees outside, drinking out of paper bags, and hollering at me. That's just wrong.

When I lived in Fernandina Beach, there was a crazy guy that I called "The Walker", that did nothing but walk in a loop through downtown and past my house...every day, all day.  He stole money out of a tip jar at the coffee shop once.  He also sat on my front porch and insisted that he lived there.  That didn't scare me.  Also, one morning, I walked outside to find a guy sleeping under my truck in my driveway.  He had no shirt, no shoes and had no idea where he was (clearly someone who was out drinking the night before), and his face was pounded pretty good.  That didn't scare me.  Springfield scares the hell out of me.

If you don't think it's dangerous or frightening, then good for you, you are a fearless warrior and I'm glad there are people like you out there trying to make things better.  As for me, a downtown loft, or a home in San Marco, Riverside, or Avondale will do just fine.

[thelakelander]

When my parents lived here in the early 70s, they used to attend the old Westside Church of Christ location on the corner of Laura & 19th.  As a kid we used to come and visit their friends in the area quite often during the mid-to-late 1980s.  Springfield is 100 times better than it was back in those days. 

For those who are expecting Riverside/San Marco-like conditions, I guess you'll be shocked, but Springfield is progressing along quite well and those neighborhoods never dropped to level that Springfield did in the a few decades ago.  Its state today, is pretty similar to what Savannah's Victorian District was around five years ago.  Its the place to be if your an urban pioneer, value cultural diversity, or looking for an affordable urban neighborhood within walking distance of downtown.  How the city embraces the Hogans Creek park system and the Main Street corridor will be the final acts that push it over the top, in terms of vibrancy.

[jason_contentdg]

Joe,

Maybe you're used to seeing what I saw.  Alot of people that have posted here have mentioned having lived in New York city and such...I haven't.  While the homeless don't bother me that much, and the occasional drunk or crazy person I can ignore, I would have a hard time living next to a house that was condemned by the city, or trying to walk to the corner store for a pop and being greeting by 10 large men, dressed in winter coats while it's 80 degrees outside, drinking out of paper bags, and hollering at me. That's just wrong.

When I lived in Fernandina Beach, there was a crazy guy that I called "The Walker", that did nothing but walk in a loop through downtown and past my house...every day, all day.  He stole money out of a tip jar at the coffee shop once.  He also sat on my front porch and insisted that he lived there.  That didn't scare me.  Also, one morning, I walked outside to find a guy sleeping under my truck in my driveway.  He had no shirt, no shoes and had no idea where he was (clearly someone who was out drinking the night before), and his face was pounded pretty good.  That didn't scare me.  Springfield scares the hell out of me.

If you don't think it's dangerous or frightening, then good for you, you are a fearless warrior and I'm glad there are people like you out there trying to make things better.  As for me, a downtown loft, or a home in San Marco, Riverside, or Avondale will do just fine.

Well, then it's definitely not a good idea to ride around a bicycle in a neighborhood that scares the hell out of you...riding a bike in dangerous enough in any Jacksonville neighborhood already.

I'm not blind to the troubles of the neighborhood, but I've yet to have the feeling of the intense fear that you speak of.  Like any area, you have to know the surroundings and where you may want to shy away from....and I could see where an "outsider" may have an uneasy feeling in certain areas of Springfield.

[second_pancake]

Joe, we were in our car, not bikes.  I'm curious to know what it's really like to live there.  I mean, all honesty, no sugar-coating or anything like that.  What are the things you have to deal with on a daily basis and how are they addressed?  Do you walk/ride your bike around town?  If so, which parts do you stay away from and why?

Lake,  you're right about the parks.  They were NOT inviting at all!  The city has got to make them a priority if we're ever to see further positive activity in that area.

[downtownparks]

Good comments Joe.

Pancake, No, we are probably not as pristene as the no doubt utopia like suburbs, but all of the things you described either have  and explination, or are harmless.

The "rusted drums" are from ground water testing that is being conducted in the Confederate Park. That is why that bridge is closed off, and the south part of the park is unaccessible.

The sidewalks havent been replaced because the DEP wont let the city replace them. There is contamination from an old coal plant under the ground, and everything near the creek and pond in that area has a no-dig order. We have tried time and again to get them replaced, only to be rebuffed.

The people that hang out in that area do so because nobody really lives in that area, and they are pretty much left alone. We are working to change that. The rampant prostitution and homeless feedings of 5 years ago are almost completely gone, though they still occur. And while the guys with the beers in the paper bags annoy me because I end up picking them up in my yard from time to time, they are completely harmless. Would I prefer they go away? Sure, but they certainly dont make me feel threatened.

I dont know what ruffians you saw that made you so afraid. I was working in my yard most of the day. I saw all of my neighbors out and about working thier yards, or playing with their children, I saw another of my neighbors kids going up and down the street on skate boards. I spoke to two couples who came by looking at the house next door. I met a couple of people out walking around. A couple on two vespa style scooters checking the neighborhood out.

Perhaps its a case of seeing what we want to see. I want to see a happy, fun, thriving, diverse community, and take the irritations with a grain of salt. You see something different.

That said, I dont see where someone with a beer in a paper bag is all that scary though?

[thelakelander]

Sorry to hear about that, but I don't think any neighborhood in the city is completely safe.  I currently live in the Southside and in the time I've been here, I've had a car stolen (skating rink at Philips & Emerson) and an apartment broken into (Southside Blvd, between Baymeadows and Deerwood Park Blvd).  On top of that, there have been a rash of break-ins at my condo complex (Southside, near Avenues Mall) in the past few months.  I work in Ponte Vedra and believe it or not, there's a decent number of paper bag carrying vagrants in the area as well.  They just are harder to see when you're driving down AIA at 50 mph.

[second_pancake]

I dont know what ruffians you saw that made you so afraid. I was working in my yard most of the day. I saw all of my neighbors out and about working thier yards, or playing with their children, I saw another of my neighbors kids going up and down the street on skate boards. I spoke to two couples who came by looking at the house next door. I met a couple of people out walking around. A couple on two vespa style scooters checking the neighborhood out.

Perhaps its a case of seeing what we want to see. I want to see a happy, fun, thriving, diverse community, and take the irritations with a grain of salt. You see something different.

I would have loved to drive through your part of the neighborhood...seriously.  And to address your comment of seeing what "we want to see", I am a very positive, open-minded person.  I have gotten into several debates with people who have criticized Springfield, Riverside, Downtown, or any other urban areas without having spent time there.  I really, truly, wanted to see a semi-vibrant community with people working hard on their houses, removed burgular bars from windows, riding their bikes, hanging out drinking a beer with one another on their front porch...that sort of thing.  I didn't see that.  I looked VERY hard.  I had my husband drive down street after street despite his concern and telling me over and over, "this doesn't feel like a good idea."  I mapped out the areas of 'concern' using crime statistics I found online.  I told him the areas that we would avoid and the areas that seemed like they were doing well, based on that information, housing sales, and housing prices.  Still, I did not see what I wanted to see nor what I expected to see.

I would like for someone to give me more information about living in Springfield, as my list of pros and cons shows the cons far outweighing the pros.

I am by no means a suburbanite, so if I think it's a very questionable area, just think how hard it would be to get the average person to move there.

Btw, the "ruffians" were at the corner of Main and 9th.  We drove up a way to the RR tracks and then turned around as I had no intentions of crossing the tracks and finding myself between them and MLK.  Our tour consisted of visiting Main, Liberty, Walnut, Hubbard, Laura, Silver streets, with turns down 9th, 7th, 3rd and 1st streets.  Didn't see the Vespas, the children, or the people talking.  I saw one older lady sweeping off her front porch, two young guys get out of their truck with some equipment they were using to work on their house, and some teenagers exiting Confederate park.  That's it.  I saw many, many more people standing around staring and not doing anything...or publicly drinking.  I thought I saw a group of guys looking like they might be getting ready to play basketball (it was in a run-down house directly next to a house that was very well restored), but upon closer inspection, they didn't have a ball in their hands and were just 'hanging out' looking like they were waiting on someone or something.  Innocent I'm sure, but to an outsider looking in, it doesn't seem so innocent.  Just like those oil drums for water testing.  There were no signs indicating that this is the city dollars at work to build a better environment, 'please pardon our dust while we work to restore your city parks', nothing like that, just a whole lot of chains, locks and oil drums.

I don't think any neighborhood in the city is completely safe.  I currently live in the Southside and in the time I've been here, I've had a car stolen (skating rink at Philips & Emerson) and an apartment broken into (Southside Blvd, between Baymeadows and Deerwood Park Blvd).  On top of that, there have been a rash of break-ins at my condo complex (Southside, near Avenues Mall) in the past few months.

Lake, I live in Baymeadows and I concur.  There are places in and around my own neighborhood that I won't go after dark.  I used to jog around the golf course but I haven't done that lately because more and more of the undesireables have been hanging out there.  There are shopping carts, bags of clothing, crack pipes, you name it back in the wooded areas.  Last weekend, my husband, the kids and I, got the wonderful opportunity to witness a man standing by his son as he proceeded to pee onto the main road going into our neighborhood...in broad daylight, in front of many other people.  If that doesnt' scream 'Quality' I don't know what does   I guess my point is, while there is an element of danger anywhere, if the danger is greater in one part of town versus another, why would you subject yourself to it?  I know just by getting on my bike to ride, I risk getting seriously injured, but that risk is highly increased by riding in places that have no bike lanes, no shoulder, and higher speed limits, so I avoid them.  To me, living in Springfield would be the equivalent of riding without my helmet down interstate 95 at 1:00am on Saturday. 

I know it will get better with time as long as the city is supportive of the efforts that do live there.  The extended median, lack of police presence, and crappy looking parks isn't helping.

[downtownparks]

We would love to have you come visit. I live on Laura St, and while I certainly cannot claim its pristine (there are undone houses, just like on other streets). we very much enjoy our little slice of the neighborhood.

Come check out a first friday some time. The first friday of every month someone in the community hosts a party. They vary in size from informal house parties, to a full on, blocking of streets block party.

I think my block will be hosting one on the first friday of may. We had a keg, three different drink and food stations, and a DJ Triclops and his crew in the middle of Laura St throwing down some jams.

I agree with you about the parks. Its been a sore spot for me for a while, but there are things afoot, I just dont know how quickly they are going to happen. Fixing them means getting funding from the city, state and feds, and while there are people working on getting that, its never very fast. I enjoy the parks. Klutho park, while needing work, is quite tranquil. and with the beautiful fountain Chris Farley and the Womans Club had restored, there are some things to see.

I will send you a PM about the time and location of the next first friday. You should come check it out.