Homeless Center In the Old Armory Building...Brilliant!

[thelakelander]

Well its one thing to be against mediocrity, and its another thing to make excellence actually happen.

A CBA would help determine what is excellence.

Where is the public will to raise the money for this?  Who has stepped up to lead on this issue?

How much money is needed?  Does anyone even know?  Should the dust off Lanier's old plan be removed?  Maybe we should help?

Surely there is a real estate agent on here that could find out what properties are available and how much they will actually sell for, right?

That's only one step of the process.  What do we want to ultimately see happen with our overall urban area as a whole?  The answer to that question plays a significant role as well.

[CityLife]

Well its one thing to be against mediocrity, and its another thing to make excellence actually happen.

Where is the public will to raise the money for this?  Who has stepped up to lead on this issue?

Surely there is a real estate agent on here that could find out what properties are available and how much they will actually sell for, right?

How can there even be a public will if the mayor won't make it an inclusive process? Are people supposed to spend hours fundraising and providing alternatives to the mayor's office without promise that he even cares?

As Lake said, there needs to be some public discussion of the long term effects. Heck perhaps the Mayor could even discuss it with the 2 council people who represent the district where it is proposed in. This has been amateur hour from the mayor.

[strider]

The statements made here and elsewhere about hoards of zombie homeless coming into the streets of Springfield due this this day center are just fear-mongering at it's best.  The fear mongering does more harm to Springfield than all of the social services combined.   And most likely will not be successful in stopping anything. 

Instead of fear-mongering, how about seeing if Springfield can get a seat at the table? You all say you have compassion for the homeless? Prove it. Get a say in how this day center will operate and insure that it is a plus for all of Downtown rather than alienate Springfield and resulting in this community having even less say in what happens around it than it does now.

Keep something in mind here. This location is partly if not mostly being chosen due to a low cost to do it. By insuring it works, perhaps the funding for a different location could be justified.  Because I doubt the funding for things like more studies is in the budget nor should it be at this point.

Just basic helping rather than hindering. Funny thing about helping in cases like this. Everyone gets the benefit rather than just a chosen few.

[CityLife]

This is a great thing for Hemming Plaza and the CBD, which is all DVI and a lot of decision makers care about, but it will come at a major detriment to Springfield and the potential redevelopment opportunities in that area of downtown.

It's not really a great thing long term for the CBD.  The reality is for those who dream of national retail in downtown, it's more likely to happen on State & Union than the Jacksonville Landing or some random downtown street where traffic patterns have resulted in a significant through traffic decrease in vehicle volume.  So, with that said, you can't treat those streets like they aren't major players in this revitalization game.

Agreed. I meant it was great for the CBD as defined by DVI and other players in the Downtown game. It will help Hemming Plaza and the Laura St. corridor, to the detriment of the State and Union corridor.

[thelakelander]

Keep something in mind here. This location is partly if not mostly being chosen due to a low cost to do it. By insuring it works, perhaps the funding for a different location could be justified.  Because I doubt the funding for things like more studies is in the budget nor should it be at this point.

What's the cost?  Also, can the city not do a CBA in-house?  Does the city ever do them?  If not, how do they accurately manage public dollars? Honestly, it's crazy to have nearly 850,000 residents and not do them.

Just basic helping rather than hindering. Funny thing about helping in cases like this. Everyone gets the benefit rather than just a chosen few.

+1

[CityLife]

^If the city can't do a CBA or Fiscal Impact Analysis then close the doors to City Hall tomorrow.

Really what needs to be done is a Multiple Goal Analysis for this and other projects like the convention center. Its pretty complicated, but weighs stakeholder opinions, evaluation criteria, project effects, cost, value tradeoffs, professional analysis and all kinds of crazy factors, then it compares alternatives. I did one once in grad school and it was intense...but its a really valuable tool and one that makes decision making on things like this much easier and much easier to sell to the public.

A city as large as Jacksonville should have someone in the Mayors Office, DIA, Planning Department, etc capable of doing things like that and if we do, they need to share their results.

[simms3]

What's wrong with the city just copying other cities?  Every step of the way Jacksonville decides to go its own route, and it ends up being the worst possible route every single time.  There should be a new city law that forbids decisions from being made that haven't been made with success elsewhere.

Obviously a day center is not a shelter, and usually day centers are well run and are for getting the homeless literally back on their feet, not for housing them.  Still, 80,000 SF day center is perhaps the largest day center in the world.  And it will be in a residential neighborhood across the street from a string of parks that stand as Jacksonville's only logical chance at great public space where FAMILIES and young professionals alike can play (think Boston Commons, Piedmont Park, Central Park...no shelters or day centers bordering any of these).

The cost alone to run the 80,000 SF Armory would probably be greater than the cost to buy and run a 15,000 SF warehouse that the owners obviously didn't want to keep anyway.  That 15,000 SF warehouse just so happens to be more convenient to city services and churches and away from parks and families/single family residential neighborhood.

Additionally, it's trending in an area that could be the city's largest tourist/entertainment district.  That's where you put the homeless...bordering tourist/entertainment districts, not in residential areas.  Between East Bay St and the stadiums the city could have a large area filled with city services, bars/clubs, restaurants, some edgy residential meant for young/creative types, galleries, and the homeless (and conveniently the police station is right there so crime would be less an issue).  There is a large, well-run day center in Atlanta in an attractive "green" building that is across from World of Coke, Georgia Aquarium, and across from the now U/C Nat'l Center for Civil and Human Rights.  No problems.  In Jacksonville's case there is waterfront and overpasses, too, in that area.  Not to sound inhumane, but homeless avoid shelters when they can because they are not safe or clean.  They are much better in camps in concealed and weather resistant areas, and that area offers these environments in perfect fashion.

Of course the city can't see 2 inches in front of itself and so it thinks the best and logical choice is to fill an entire 80,000 SF building across from parks and family occupied houses with a day center.  SMH

[thelakelander]

Noone sent me an image of the back half of the Miller site.  Perhaps they are planning to keep the structure still standing.  However, its a little under 10,000 square feet.

[Bridges]

According to the email I just received from CM Lumb, there are actually 4 locations under consideration.  The Armory being one of them.

[thelakelander]

What are the other two locations?

[Bridges]

He didn't name them.  Only said that the FTU was wrong in stating there were only 2 sites.

Edit:  After the backlash with the Armory, I can't blame him. haha. 

[Bridges]

How do the people that run the mission's in downtown Jacksonville feel about the homeless center. They should have a bigger voice in this debate. http://www.sulzbachercenter.org/ http://www.crmjax.org/ http://www.clarawhitemission.org/Home.aspx

They do not support the Armory location.

[If_I_Loved_you]

How do the people that run the mission's in downtown Jacksonville feel about the homeless center. They should have a bigger voice in this debate. http://www.sulzbachercenter.org/ http://www.crmjax.org/ http://www.clarawhitemission.org/Home.aspx

They do not support the Armory location.

Darn I posted as if these places were ok with the move to the Armory location. This is what happens from time to time with me. Ok it's up to the Mayor and City council it's why we vote for them. 

[urbaknight]

Why don't' they just put in an area that is surrounded by highways, pedestrian nightmares. The ss is full of those death traps. Drop the homeless there and they won't be able to leave. Let's try to salvage one of our greatest mistakes of sprawl.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Why don't' they just put in an area that is surrounded by highways, pedestrian nightmares. The ss is full of those death traps. Drop the homeless there and they won't be able to leave. Let's try to salvage one of our greatest mistakes of sprawl.

Man you need help.