Homeless Center In the Old Armory Building...Brilliant!

[thelakelander]

Where was the Talleyrand location?

[tufsu1]

You're right FSUJax could end up financially worse off someday. Especially if you put a homeless shelter 4 blocks from his home.

hey...either of the sites under consideration are 3 blocks from my house....but oddly enough, I'm not that concerned....maybe that's because many homeless people already wander in front of my place or hang out in the church park across the street on a daily basis.

[fsujax]

Parks and Recreation is completely out of the building.

[John P]

You're right FSUJax could end up financially worse off someday. Especially if you put a homeless shelter 4 blocks from his home.

hey...either of the sites under consideration are 3 blocks from my house....but oddly enough, I'm not that concerned....maybe that's because many homeless people already wander in front of my place or hang out in the church park across the street on a daily basis.

Then you would have more of that I guess. The mayor is just looking at city owned property close to downtown not taking into consideration all the other factors. Poorly thought out. Who is his point person on this?

[fsujax]

not sure. I think they store some of their lawn equipment there. The admin staff is not there.

[Bridges]

Where was the Talleyrand location?

I'll try to find it in some notes I have, but I believe it was the old church on Tallyrand and Swift.  With the goal being to have an outside facility too.  The Sheriff was on board with having an officer on site too I believe.

[John P]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

I couldn't agree more about the homeless.  However, I think you need to look at what is in the best interest of the Homeless in terms of support services, safety, and security.  You also need to consider how the location of a day center would impact the area around it both in regards to the outward effect on the community and the effect of the community onto the day center.

It's pretty clear that Mayor Brown has put absolutely zero thought into either the prevention and treatment of the Homeless, and the revitalization of neighborhoods and downtown.   This move absolutely reeks of panic for an administration that has made promises it can't keep. 

They lost out on the Talleyrand location for a variety of reasons (Mayor's office being one of them), now they're grasping at anything.

This is exactly right. The mayor made a promise to have something by the end of the year and he is trying to keep that promise even if it means royaling screwing over his base and Downtown Springfield Eastside.

[thelakelander]

For the record, I think that Dennis Street is a great location for this.

Lets look at the reality though.  The City owns the Armory. so the cost to acquire the building is: 0.00
Dennis Street?  Between 300k and a million per building.  All of Dennis Street?  20 million maybe?

You don't want to settle for mediocrity because you may save a million or two upfront.  That's precisely the type of decision making that has separated the OKCs, Portlands, and Charlottes from Jax over the last few decades.  Without answering every question raised in your post, the first thing I'd recommend is the city doing a cost-benefit analysis before doing anything.  For those that don't know, a cost-benefit analysis is:

Costâ€"benefit analysis (CBA), sometimes called benefitâ€"cost analysis (BCA), is a systematic process for calculating and comparing benefits and costs of a project, decision or government policy (hereafter, "project").

CBA has two purposes:

1. To determine if it is a sound investment/decision (justification/feasibility),
2. To provide a basis for comparing projects. It involves comparing the total expected cost of each option against the total expected benefits, to see whether the benefits outweigh the costs, and by how much.

In short, a short term decision based off already having a building owned by the city in place, may save you a million or two upfront but cost you $100 million in private development and property tax revenue over a decade or so.  A cost-benefit analysis helps shed light on additional factors that may be being overlooked presently, providing a community with a clearer idea of the direction it should move forward in.

Does anyone have any alternative suggestions?

It's obvious that the armory is being considered simply because the building is owned by the city.  This is a problem because the site selection process fails to acknowledge other opportunities for this specific location, the surrounding neighborhoods, and even the overall point of a day center.  My suggestion would be a simple one that would require taking a few steps back.  A true site selection process that evaluates more than the need to provide a day center away from Hemming Plaza needs to take place.  After a few sites have been identified, a CBA needs to be conducted before a final decision is made.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Where was the Talleyrand location?

I'll try to find it in some notes I have, but I believe it was the old church on Tallyrand and Swift.  With the goal being to have an outside facility too.  The Sheriff was on board with having an officer on site too I believe.

We need to have the Homeless center in the Downtown area if not at the Old Armory Building it shouldn't go pass I-95.

[thelakelander]

I-95 passes through the downtown area.  Myrtle provides a direct connection to the future JRTC hub.  Utilizing mobility as connectivity, that's about as centralized as its going to get in Jax, on a general level.

[If_I_Loved_you]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

I couldn't agree more about the homeless.  However, I think you need to look at what is in the best interest of the Homeless in terms of support services, safety, and security.  You also need to consider how the location of a day center would impact the area around it both in regards to the outward effect on the community and the effect of the community onto the day center.

It's pretty clear that Mayor Brown has put absolutely zero thought into either the prevention and treatment of the Homeless, and the revitalization of neighborhoods and downtown.   This move absolutely reeks of panic for an administration that has made promises it can't keep. 

They lost out on the Talleyrand location for a variety of reasons (Mayor's office being one of them), now they're grasping at anything.

This is exactly right. The mayor made a promise to have something by the end of the year and he is trying to keep that promise even if it means royaling screwing over his base and Downtown Springfield Eastside.

Why do you feel the Homeless Center would screw you over? It doesn't look like it's a place for them to sleep overnight at? But it's OK if we ship them out to the Dennis Street area with old warehouses & main line railroad tracks. I find it sad that everyone thinks about themselves "Not in my backyard" I say why not?

[thelakelander]

^Don't forget the concept of cause and effect.  If your vision is too tunnelized you may solve one problem but create 20 more you never considered. I say do a true site selection process that involves the community for the best overall solution.  It's more important to do this right to achieve your long term overall grand vision (do we even have one?) than rush to plop something up in a few months.

[CityLife]

You're right FSUJax could end up financially worse off someday. Especially if you put a homeless shelter 4 blocks from his home.

hey...either of the sites under consideration are 3 blocks from my house....but oddly enough, I'm not that concerned....maybe that's because many homeless people already wander in front of my place or hang out in the church park across the street on a daily basis.

Yea the armory location would probably be better for you. The area south of Union and north of Church is pretty much the DMZ between downtown and Springfield, full of homeless. My wife won't even ride her bike DT alone through there.

If you put the day center in the Armory, it will likely push a lot of the homeless who hang out along State/Union, or the above mentioned DMZ, to areas north of State. Springfield does have the occasional homeless and vagrants, but by and large, nowhere near the amount downtown does. Confederate and Klutho Parks will see major influxes. As will the grounds at the Senior Center at 1st and Hubbard, which is a homeless person's dream spot. Of course purely speculation, but who knows how many homeless will be wandering around Springfield for places to sleep at night, for places to go to the bathroom, and so on.

This is a great thing for Hemming Plaza and the CBD, which is all DVI and a lot of decision makers care about, but it will come at a major detriment to Springfield, The Eastside, and the potential redevelopment opportunities in that area of downtown.

[thelakelander]

This is a great thing for Hemming Plaza and the CBD, which is all DVI and a lot of decision makers care about, but it will come at a major detriment to Springfield and the potential redevelopment opportunities in that area of downtown.

It's not really a great thing long term for the CBD.  The reality is for those who dream of national retail in downtown, it's more likely to happen on State & Union than the Jacksonville Landing or some random downtown street where traffic patterns have resulted in a significant through traffic decrease in vehicle volume.  So, with that said, you can't treat those streets like they aren't major players in this revitalization game.

[If_I_Loved_you]

How do the people that run the mission's in downtown Jacksonville feel about the homeless center. They should have a bigger voice in this debate. http://www.sulzbachercenter.org/ http://www.crmjax.org/ http://www.clarawhitemission.org/Home.aspx