Homeless Center In the Old Armory Building...Brilliant!

[thelakelander]

The Dennis Street industrial district is not the place for a Homeless Center! Unless a local church group was involved or the good hard working people of the neighborhoods got behind it. It's as if you are trying to hide the homeless?

Yes, if you're talking about investing millions of public dollars into your downtown core to attract more economic development, it's a bad idea to have Hemming Plaza as your defacto day center and placing one on a gateway corridor (State & Union) to your downtown is highly questionable as well.   

If anything, State & Union should become a centralized front door for the urban core by providing "walkable" commercial uses serving multiple neighborhoods including Springfield and downtown.  Also, what happens with Hogans Creek (our real historical "Central Park" area) is just as important, if not more, than what eventually takes place with a site like the Shipyards.  Why kill all that economic potential by placing an incompatible land use there if you have an opportunity to efficiently address both.

I believe, with the Dennis Street district, you could reasonably afford (from a reuse standpoint) and extend services to the unfortunate in a centralized location that is within walking distance of downtown, served by transit lines and close to potential job generators. You literally have blocks and blocks of obsolete 50 year old building with limited docking depths, square footage requirements and low ceiling heights. 

I know the Dennis Street area and that isn't a good place to put this center.

You could be right but why specifically?

Besides with all the railroad action around these warehouses it would be down right stupid.

?? A series of large warehouses buffers Dennis from the railyards between Dennis and Beaver.  Between Dennis and McCoys Creek, you have Harper, Swan and Marie.  All are lined with obsolete buildings with a few businesses scattered in and all have long abandoned rail sidings that were disconnected from the main line decades ago.  It's actually a perfect spot.  One of the buildings was demolished a few years ago and if you wanted to dream big, that block could be repurposed as a outdoor centralized park for the area.

Here is an aerial of the area.  You have a lot a room to work with.


Here is a 1940s/50s aerial of the area.  As you can see, between the railroad and McCoys Creek, you have a lot of room to work with.


Also, if you wanted it on the east end of Dennis Street, there's blocks and blocks of moonscape immediately adjacent to Interstate 95, which is elevated, and Ives Street.  You would need to construct a new building since we've torn what was there down but you could possibly utilize the land under I-95 as well (pending FDOT's approval of course).

If it was up to me and it was between the Old Armory and Dennis St. Industrial Center I would go with the Old Armory.

Probably so.  However, you'd hurt your long term goal to revitalize downtown/Springfield/Eastside, etc. by placing that use along a gateway corridor that gets traffic volumes similar to those seen on arterial highways like Southside Boulevard.

If narrowed down to the two sites mentioned in the article, I'd prefer constructing a new building on the Miller Machine site.  However, that's still taking a short term view if you believe in the idea of Hogans Creek becoming a part of the "Emerald Necklace," which was a part of the 2000 Downtown Master Plan.

[Bill Hoff]

Good point.

Also, I wonder how the 3 new developments within 1 block of this site feel about this idea. Not to mention the Winn-Dixie that spent a chunk of cash on renovations to attract more people just a few years ago. I'm guessing none expected a new homeless hub to be their neighbor.

[ronchamblin]

In any case, if Jax is to accomplish the two primary goals of a assisting a population in need, and placing the facility to do so in the most appropriate place, it will take a lot of dedication, commitment, and "leadership" .... along with federal funds routed from our imperial wars; that is, funds taken from Ike's described military industrial complex. 

It's a case of reducing the suffering and killing, assisting the needy, which seems to me to be a good objective overall, or the continuation of the same senseless juvenile policies against any and all problems locally or nationally by our illustrious, self-centered, but dumb politicians who have been able to entrench themselves in power by way of an ignorant, and therefore somewhat stupid electorate.  Don't mean to be optimistic. 

[thelakelander]

As for State & Union, as I've mentioned before, they are the most traveled streets in the downtown area.  They are also anchored by an intermodal transit station, the Ritz Theater, and downtown's only college campus.  With traffic counts similar to our suburban arterials, they could possibly offer market rate opportunity for a mix of infill uses. 

The addition of Family Dollar, McDonald's, 7-11, and Winn-Dixie's renovation a few years ago (none of which asked for public incentives), indicate market rate opportunity is there.  However, I believe we fail to recognize that opportunity.  With Rosa Parks, we even have the opportunity for TOD on the full block between the skyway and Laura Street.

Something as simple as a Form-Based code in that area (and probably a good chunk of downtown) would put us on the incremental track of changing that environment to the benefit of Springfield, Eastside, Durkeeville, Downtown, and what's left of Sugar Hill, Hansontown, and LaVilla. 

Here are a few images of uses that could be naturally destined for State and Union if we don't continue to ignore their potential.















While this discussion focuses on finding a day center site, we also need to think about how the site selection process will impact the core on a larger level.

[Bridges]

Great info Lake, but I can't hold out much hope for that sort of long term thinking.  Especially when one of the two sites the mayor is supposedly "looking" at for the day center is currently being demolished. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

The Dennis Street industrial district is not the place for a Homeless Center! Unless a local church group was involved or the good hard working people of the neighborhoods got behind it. It's as if you are trying to hide the homeless?

Yes, if you're talking about investing millions of public dollars into your downtown core to attract more economic development, it's a bad idea to have Hemming Plaza as your defacto day center and placing one on a gateway corridor (State & Union) to your downtown is highly questionable as well.   

If anything, State & Union should become a centralized front door for the urban core by providing "walkable" commercial uses serving multiple neighborhoods including Springfield and downtown.  Also, what happens with Hogans Creek (our real historical "Central Park" area) is just as important, if not more, than what eventually takes place with a site like the Shipyards.  Why kill all that economic potential by placing an incompatible land use there if you have an opportunity to efficiently address both.

I believe, with the Dennis Street district, you could reasonably afford (from a reuse standpoint) and extend services to the unfortunate in a centralized location that is within walking distance of downtown, served by transit lines and close to potential job generators. You literally have blocks and blocks of obsolete 50 year old building with limited docking depths, square footage requirements and low ceiling heights. 

I know the Dennis Street area and that isn't a good place to put this center.

You could be right but why specifically?

Besides with all the railroad action around these warehouses it would be down right stupid.

?? A series of large warehouses buffers Dennis from the railyards between Dennis and Beaver.  Between Dennis and McCoys Creek, you have Harper, Swan and Marie.  All are lined with obsolete buildings with a few businesses scattered in and all have long abandoned rail sidings that were disconnected from the main line decades ago.  It's actually a perfect spot.  One of the buildings was demolished a few years ago and if you wanted to dream big, that block could be repurposed as a outdoor centralized park for the area.

Here is an aerial of the area.  You have a lot a room to work with.


Here is a 1940s/50s aerial of the area.  As you can see, between the railroad and McCoys Creek, you have a lot of room to work with.


Also, if you wanted it on the east end of Dennis Street, there's blocks and blocks of moonscape immediately adjacent to Interstate 95, which is elevated, and Ives Street.  You would need to construct a new building since we've torn what was there down but you could possibly utilize the land under I-95 as well (pending FDOT's approval of course).

If it was up to me and it was between the Old Armory and Dennis St. Industrial Center I would go with the Old Armory.

Probably so.  However, you'd hurt your long term goal to revitalize downtown/Springfield/Eastside, etc. by placing that use along a gateway corridor that gets traffic volumes similar to those seen on arterial highways like Southside Boulevard.

If narrowed down to the two sites mentioned in the article, I'd prefer constructing a new building on the Miller Machine site.  However, that's still taking a short term view if you believe in the idea of Hogans Creek becoming a part of the "Emerald Necklace," which was a part of the 2000 Downtown Master Plan.

I bet Drummond Press Inc would have a problem with the Homeless Center being across the street from them? The Industrial district should be just that not a place to hide the homeless. CSX runs several times a day through this area I see the coal trains being so long sometimes that the engines can be over at Cash Building Material off of McCoy Creek Blvd and the coal cars still behind Nextran Truck Center at Stockton St.

[fsujax]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

[If_I_Loved_you]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

[thelakelander]

I bet Drummond Press Inc would have a problem with the Homeless Center being across the street from them? The Industrial district should be just that not a place to hide the homeless. CSX runs several times a day through this area I see the coal trains being so long sometimes that the engines can be over at Cash Building Material off of McCoy Creek Blvd and the coal cars still behind Nextran Truck Center at Stockton St.

Kids playscape under construction. Image from September 2012 construction update.

So a day center is better suited being across the street from a children's playground currently being installed than a publishing facility?  To be honest, Drummond would be a better fit than a children's playground because you at least have the possible job creation opportunities.  I'd say a community dog and children's park would be more on the incompatible side.

Nevertheless, Dennis Street is a mile in length.  Drummond Press is located at Dennis and Stockton.  That's as far as you can get from downtown and still be considered on Dennis Street.  I've already suggested two general areas along the corridor, far from Drummond.  One is adjacent to I-95 and Myrtle Avenue.  There you go under the railroad, so there is no conflict with trains.  So I'm not really understanding your logic unless you're looking at Stockton Street (the furthest point away) as a specific location.  Thinking about it, you may be locking on to a few images of vacant buildings I used as examples above. 

However, that area is choke full of underutilized properties.  Here are some more that aren't near Stockton or Drummond if it helps:




This is the warehouse building I mentioned was torn down a few years back.  It's on the block bounded by Harper, Watts, Swan, and Cantee Streets.  Considering its surrounded by some other underutilized spaces, the idea of leveling out the site and making it a park or central gathering space pops in my mind.  The building below is the former Universal Paper facility.  It is located at Dennis and Lemon Streets.  It's roughly a 1/2 mile or six blocks east of Drummond. 







Above you can see one of the issues that makes these older buildings obsolete for their original uses.   When Universal was in operation, truck trailers at the loading docks were essentially in Harper Street.  Below, I highlighted this site earlier but I'll show it again, since its the closet to downtown.  This is at Ives and Dennis.  I assume the building was torn down for the widening of the I-95 viaduct heading into the I-10 interchange.  You would have to put up a building but it appears you'll have to do the same at the Miller site, since its being demolished as well.

[CityLife]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

But yet you just said you bet Drummond Press, Inc would have a problem with this being near them...Newsflash, it would negatively affect a lot more people, businesses, and the revitalization of Downtown and Springfield at the Armory than at Dennis Street.

You're right FSUJax could end up financially worse off someday. Especially if you put a homeless shelter 4 blocks from his home.

[If_I_Loved_you]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

But yet you just said you bet Drummond Press, Inc would have a problem with this being near them...Newsflash, it would negatively affect a lot more people, businesses, and the revitalization of Downtown and Springfield at the Armory than at Dennis Street.

You're right FSUJax could end up financially worse off someday. Especially if you put a homeless shelter 4 blocks from his home.

Dennis Street is an Industrial district not a place for the Homeless Human's!

[thelakelander]

You can use the same overall dismissive logic for any place in the city where you don't want specifically want it.  However, that doesn't mean such a use can't fit like a glove in that specific location.  I'd argue that Dennis Street is a dying industrial area in need of adaptive reuses.  I'd also argue that Myrtle Avenue, Springfield Warehouse District, and Park Street in Brooklyn are additional examples of industrial districts in need of a makeover due to the change in technology, equipment, and building design since the early 20th century.

However, out of all of them, Dennis is uniquely buffered from incompatible land uses due to the construction of Interstate 95 and the location of railroads and McCoys Creek.  It's about one of the best centralized locations, where the negatives are limited on the surrounding land uses, that you'll find in and around downtown.

[acme54321]

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

Homeless families are not the problem downtown. 

Locating the day center on the busiest street though DT is not going to fix the perception that there is a homeless problem downtown.  Union and State are alreay in rough shape just driving though.  This would only make the situation worse.  This center should be on the far east side or on the west side of I-95.

[Bridges]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

I couldn't agree more about the homeless.  However, I think you need to look at what is in the best interest of the Homeless in terms of support services, safety, and security.  You also need to consider how the location of a day center would impact the area around it both in regards to the outward effect on the community and the effect of the community onto the day center.

It's pretty clear that Mayor Brown has put absolutely zero thought into either the prevention and treatment of the Homeless, and the revitalization of neighborhoods and downtown.   This move absolutely reeks of panic for an administration that has made promises it can't keep. 

They lost out on the Talleyrand location for a variety of reasons (Mayor's office being one of them), now they're grasping at anything. 

[Tacachale]

I wonder what the developers of the old Warren Motors site think about this? Lake brough up some good points about the new development being planned and the money Winn Dixie spent on that stores renovation. Not too mention the Florida Ballet is across the street and the dog park and playground are a block away. I just do not see how this is a good fit. I mean that location is bascially the gateway to Downtown for anyone coming over the Mathews Bridge and the Arlington Expressway. Doug that was an awesome post by the way!

I feel sorry for the Homeless here are people that are down on their luck not always because what they did or didn't do to themselves. Hey don't forget unless you are truly wise and save a lot of money you too could become homeless. If you ask the families that are homeless around America how they got to this point you may change your mind about the homeless. They are not all mentally ill nor do they all crap on Laura street? We need to treat these people as HUMANS not as just the Homeless. For one day you could become just like them.

I couldn't agree more about the homeless.  However, I think you need to look at what is in the best interest of the Homeless in terms of support services, safety, and security.  You also need to consider how the location of a day center would impact the area around it both in regards to the outward effect on the community and the effect of the community onto the day center.

It's pretty clear that Mayor Brown has put absolutely zero thought into either the prevention and treatment of the Homeless, and the revitalization of neighborhoods and downtown.   This move absolutely reeks of panic for an administration that has made promises it can't keep. 

They lost out on the Talleyrand location for a variety of reasons (Mayor's office being one of them), now they're grasping at anything. 

You said it.