RAP-->Costs? Benefits?

[strider]

Why seek their approval anyway? I have learned after living in Springfield for a few years that some don't have to follow the rules, they do whatever the hell they want to their houses, add-ons, trailers, etc. and nothing happens. So i have decided I will do whatever I want.

well, it hasnt happend in Springfield. It's funny how they chose who to go after and who to ignore.

No, it isn't funny.  Many "cool kids", those that sided with SPAR Council's various hate campaigns, often seemed immune to those enforcement issues. They did what they wanted when they wanted. Including getting permission (or not, in at least one case) to tear down a house. 

There are many, many folks out there who are in the system  and who have been taken to task not because they failed to get a COA but because someone decided something they did was beyond their COA.  In one case, it was clearly not because what the person was doing was bad but because that person has foster kids. The threads are here and on  MySpringfield.  We are perhaps the contractor least likely to do something against the guidelines and yet we get called in to Martin Kennelly several times a project.  Not because of what we are doing, but because of who we are.  And once called out, the inspector often feels he has to find something or he isn't doing his job. So some little thing that means nothing becomes something.  You just can't let things get to you, you simply need to know the codes and the rules and all is OK in the end.  This is the end result of any complaint driven system.  It gets abused by those with an ax to grind.

Things are getting better in Springfield. If these issues are also in Riverside/ Avondale, then you just have to do your homework and then set out to change the people who control RAP.  Or start a new org.  If you remove the existing organizations power base, then they can not do harm anymore.  First though, you have to identify what the issues really are.  In RAP's case, it seems to be the commercial development issues and secondly the concentration on the little details and losing sight of the real and larger picture.  Common among all who deal with and work in the historic departments.  That is why there are hours spent on the window mullions while a demolition decision about a house in Springfield was often over in minutes.  Priorities often get a bit mixed up and that is what you need to try to change.

[grimss]

I'm pretty sure the people on the corner of St. Johns and Talbot just erected a 6' fence- it definitely wasn't 4'.  They went through the COA process.  Who at RAP told you it had to be 4'?

You can have six feet in the back yard, but the front yard must be 4 feet.  The fence at my house extends from the front edge of my house to the property boundary then to the back fence.  Staff said the front portion (its about 10-feet in length) must be 4 feet tall.  I was fine with that.  But staff also wanted the first half of my backyard fence to also be 4' because it could be seen from the road.

I called RAP to discuss.  No one ever called back.  Yet they showed up an opposed what I was asking for, which was four feet in the front, four feet at the turn with a gradual increase to 10 feet.  This was four years ago, pre Carmen.

Four years ago, RAP was a very different organization. Its Executive Director, Bonnie Grissett, had been there for almost two decades and was the sole employee; she was, understandably, overwhelmed at times by the workload, and didn't always get back to the folks who called. The Design Review committee, whose members were tasked with attending the JHPC meetings to voice RAP's opposition or support for a particular project, was an odd mix of realtors, zoning gurus, and, yes, old biddies. Now the Design Review process has been revamped to be more homeowner-centric (i.e. offering guidance and help rather than unwelcome opinions and obstruction), and is under the able purview of Laura Lavernia, RAP's Preservation and Education Coordinator, who really knows her stuff. I can certainly understand your frustration over what happened four years ago, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that, under Carmen, RAP is a different and decidedly better organization.

[Kaiser Soze]

I'm pretty sure the people on the corner of St. Johns and Talbot just erected a 6' fence- it definitely wasn't 4'.  They went through the COA process.  Who at RAP told you it had to be 4'?

You can have six feet in the back yard, but the front yard must be 4 feet.  The fence at my house extends from the front edge of my house to the property boundary then to the back fence.  Staff said the front portion (its about 10-feet in length) must be 4 feet tall.  I was fine with that.  But staff also wanted the first half of my backyard fence to also be 4' because it could be seen from the road.

I called RAP to discuss.  No one ever called back.  Yet they showed up an opposed what I was asking for, which was four feet in the front, four feet at the turn with a gradual increase to 10 feet.  This was four years ago, pre Carmen.

Four years ago, RAP was a very different organization. Its Executive Director, Bonnie Grissett, had been there for almost two decades and was the sole employee; she was, understandably, overwhelmed at times by the workload, and didn't always get back to the folks who called. The Design Review committee, whose members were tasked with attending the JHPC meetings to voice RAP's opposition or support for a particular project, was an odd mix of realtors, zoning gurus, and, yes, old biddies. Now the Design Review process has been revamped to be more homeowner-centric (i.e. offering guidance and help rather than unwelcome opinions and obstruction), and is under the able purview of Laura Lavernia, RAP's Preservation and Education Coordinator, who really knows her stuff. I can certainly understand your frustration over what happened four years ago, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that, under Carmen, RAP is a different and decidedly better organization.

From where I sit, RAP has moved beyond historic preservation and into traffic planning.

[Dog Walker]

Preserving a neighborhood is more than just preserving the buildings. 

RAP is also taking JEA to task for the way Lewis Tree Service butchers the tree canopy in the area, for example.  They worked with JSO and the merchants in 5 Points to clean up the graffiti in the area and keep it off.  They make available a MP3 format self-quided tour of the district.  They put on Luminria and support the 5 Points Wine Festival so that there are fun activities that draw people to the area.

[fsujax]

Strider, The two examples I am thinking of probably don't even know that SPAR exists, and I assure they aren't part of the "cool kids" crowd that you are referring to. Somone needed to go after JEA and their moron tree trimmers! good for RAP.

[ben says]

I'm pretty sure the people on the corner of St. Johns and Talbot just erected a 6' fence- it definitely wasn't 4'.  They went through the COA process.  Who at RAP told you it had to be 4'?

You can have six feet in the back yard, but the front yard must be 4 feet.  The fence at my house extends from the front edge of my house to the property boundary then to the back fence.  Staff said the front portion (its about 10-feet in length) must be 4 feet tall.  I was fine with that.  But staff also wanted the first half of my backyard fence to also be 4' because it could be seen from the road.

I called RAP to discuss.  No one ever called back.  Yet they showed up an opposed what I was asking for, which was four feet in the front, four feet at the turn with a gradual increase to 10 feet.  This was four years ago, pre Carmen.

Four years ago, RAP was a very different organization. Its Executive Director, Bonnie Grissett, had been there for almost two decades and was the sole employee; she was, understandably, overwhelmed at times by the workload, and didn't always get back to the folks who called. The Design Review committee, whose members were tasked with attending the JHPC meetings to voice RAP's opposition or support for a particular project, was an odd mix of realtors, zoning gurus, and, yes, old biddies. Now the Design Review process has been revamped to be more homeowner-centric (i.e. offering guidance and help rather than unwelcome opinions and obstruction), and is under the able purview of Laura Lavernia, RAP's Preservation and Education Coordinator, who really knows her stuff. I can certainly understand your frustration over what happened four years ago, but I can tell you from first-hand experience that, under Carmen, RAP is a different and decidedly better organization.

From where I sit, RAP has moved beyond historic preservation and into traffic planning.

Unarguable.  What makes it worse is that the policies that they are pushing will end up destroying historic fabric, and preventing a true restored historic commercial/residential outcome.

Stephen, while I see what you're saying, and more or less agree, could you please explain how these "policies...are preventing a true restored historic commercial/residential outcome."?

[Bill Hoff]

It appears that you could have asked for a fence higher than 6' with approval.  Is that what you did and RAP opposed it, and then the board voted it down?

The fencing guidelines have various gaps and needs to be revised, ideally. SPAR met with Planning Dept last year to clarify a few things and it was evident that this particular subject needs an update.

[Dog Walker]

Forgot!  RAP is also behind the move to put community gardens across the street from the Willowbranch Library and RAP started RAM, which has to be one of the most successful efforts to help businesses, local farmers, artists and budding restaurateurs to happen in Jacksonville in many years.

[mtraininjax]

RAP is also taking JEA to task for the way Lewis Tree Service butchers the tree canopy in the area, for example.

Yeah, good luck with that. By the time you get to the tree butchers, they have inflicted the damage, and then the contractor hides behind JEA as the ones who "told them what to do". JEA should do their own dirty work, or at the least, have representatives onsite with the butchers to address community issues.

[mtraininjax]

Riverside Avondale is in the final stages of the aesthetic restoration of residential structures which pleases the narrow concerns of the architectural enthusiasts in the neighborhood.

+1

[Dog Walker]

Stephen, you are preaching to the choir when you say that R/A needs to put streetcars back in; the very element that made it grow in the first place. 

Automobiles were rich men's toys when most of Riverside was built.  Accommodating automobiles here is really difficult and high intensity commercial uses in what were originally very low intensity, local (walking distance) commercial uses puts an even greater burden on the surrounding residential areas.  High intensity commercial uses just aren't compatible with all of the old commercial areas in R/A.  It takes conversion areas like the Publix Plaza and 1661 to deal with those uses.

It's a really tough problem.  We all like the amenities that our neighborhood provides, but don't like the auto centric problems that result from their popularity.  People blocking my driveway are going to make me hostile and I am far from being sensitive about cars parked in front of my house.  Loud horseplay, radio music and door slamming at 3AM aren't real happy making either.  But I sure can't blame them for wanting to enjoy the same places I do.  Can't shout, "Southsiders go home!"  I admire their taste.

Transit, even if we have to start with St. Augustine tourist type trams, is absolutely the best answer and simply must come if we are not to choke on parked cars.  Fixed rail streetcars put back where they were in the first place is the best solution by far.  I hate having to break out the car to go the the Shoppes of Avondale or Fairfax.

But how do we force the solutions to start?  I don't have any answers either.  Start a Riverside/Avondale Transit Authority on our own maybe?  JTA sure isn't helping with any solutions.

[mtraininjax]

But how do we force the solutions to start?

Street parking with only one side for parking. Take away the parking, people are forced to resort to other options to get there. As it is now, with cars on both sides of Pine and Riverside, you cannot fit more than 1 car down the road, imagine if Emergency Vehicles needed the access. I don't see the draconian extent that Neptune Beach has gone to of eliminating parking on 1st street after 10 PM, but there will need to be an elimination of parking to drive more pedicab solutions, walking or mass transit.

You could take a 3 block diameter around the epicenter of Ingleside and St. Johns and mandate single side of the street parking. Few people will be willing to walk from almost Herschel or Challen or Shadowlawn to get to the shops. We are a very lazy town, but something like this, imo is coming to the neighborhood. I think the pedicabs would be awesome (like the ones you see at the Jags games and concerts at the arena).

[Dog Walker]

Didn't know they even HAD a traffic and parking committee, but then I don't pay much attention to their inner workings.  I'm not a committee person.  Same as you, I really like and admire a lot of the individuals I know who are involved with RAP, but don't know most of their volunteers.

[Dog Walker]

But how do we force the solutions to start?

Street parking with only one side for parking. Take away the parking, people are forced to resort to other options to get there. As it is now, with cars on both sides of Pine and Riverside, you cannot fit more than 1 car down the road, imagine if Emergency Vehicles needed the access. I don't see the draconian extent that Neptune Beach has gone to of eliminating parking on 1st street after 10 PM, but there will need to be an elimination of parking to drive more pedicab solutions, walking or mass transit.

You could take a 3 block diameter around the epicenter of Ingleside and St. Johns and mandate single side of the street parking. Few people will be willing to walk from almost Herschel or Challen or Shadowlawn to get to the shops. We are a very lazy town, but something like this, imo is coming to the neighborhood. I think the pedicabs would be awesome (like the ones you see at the Jags games and concerts at the arena).

Don't you think that would kill many of the very businesses that are attracting the activity before the City would come up with a solution?  I like the idea of making the parking so difficult that solutions would be demanded, but worry about the timing.

[mtraininjax]

Don't you think that would kill many of the very businesses that are attracting the activity before the City would come up with a solution?

I don't think so, people still go to the beaches in Neptune Beach, even if people cannot park along the street. The area seems to thrive. I see something similar to the no parking on one side, or maybe the City will get crazy and forbid all parking in that zone on the street after a certain time of night. I think Neptune's is 10 PM, then you get a ticket. Hey, the City needs money.

The lot that Frank owns at Bluefish might as well be paved in gold. That is how valuable it has become.