RAP-->Costs? Benefits?

[ben says]

To all your people in Riverside/Avondale, feel like you know Riverside/Avondale, have a stake in Riverside/Avondale....

What are your honest thoughts of RAP?

Are they "worth" it? Are they a "good" organization? What are the perceived benefits? Costs? Are we happy to have them around? Do they perform a valuable function/service?

Interested what everyone thinks. There's been tons of negative news about RAP in the past 1-3 years. With the recent downfall of SPAR, it would be interested to see where everyone lies on this "issue" (if you could even call it that).

[fieldafm]

RAP is very beneficial to the neighborhood.  That's really not even a question worth asking.

Don't take disagreement over transportation and parking/zoning issues as anything more than it is. 

[ben says]

I don't disagree, nor do I take them for granted. My question is a little broader than that. To say nobody has issues with RAP would be naive at best. The amount of negativity (on this forum, at least) towards RAP far outweighs the "good things" I read. Transportation and zoning are HUGE issues, and if we have issues with them, how should we remedy them? It seems like RAP is losing membership and running out of innovative ideas to market themselves. Furthermore, I think this Kickbacks/MM debacle has really hampered their ability to present themselves in a positive light. Let's say you had a hypothetical meeting with the "boss"...what would you tell them?

[Debbie Thompson]

If it weren't for RAP, as I understand it, there would be a freeway through lovely Boone Park, and Riverside/Avondale would not exist as it does today.  I lived in Riverside in the early 1970's when St. Vincents and Riverside Hospital were eating every house in sight, and no one cared much about the old houses.  Don't knock preservation organizations. You may not agree with everything they do, but without them, count on it, no one in the rest of the City would stand up for your neighborhood or care about it.  If you have issues with RAP, let them know.  Get involved and make changes.  But don't make the mistake of thinking they didn't save your neighborhood from what the City did to LaVilla and Brooklyn, and much of downtown, when no one stood up for those areas.  RAP stood up to the "urban renewal" craze and got people interested in historic preservation.

Don't let neighborhood squabbles about parking around restaurants or people complaining about not being able to do whatever they want without restriction completely distract you.  There is a common good.

[John P]

To all your people in Riverside/Avondale, feel like you know Riverside/Avondale, have a stake in Riverside/Avondale....

What are your honest thoughts of RAP?

Interested what everyone thinks. There's been tons of negative news about RAP in the past 1-3 years. With the recent downfall of SPAR, it would be interested to see where everyone lies on this "issue" (if you could even call it that).

I just got a news letter from SPAR yesterday.
http://secure.campaigner.com/Campaigner/Public/t.show?S1gP--DHBf-pSJU13

[grimss]

If it weren't for RAP, as I understand it, there would be a freeway through lovely Boone Park, and Riverside/Avondale would not exist as it does today.  I lived in Riverside in the early 1970's when St. Vincents and Riverside Hospital were eating every house in sight, and no one cared much about the old houses.  Don't knock preservation organizations. You may not agree with everything they do, but without them, count on it, no one in the rest of the City would stand up for your neighborhood or care about it.  If you have issues with RAP, let them know.  Get involved and make changes.  But don't make the mistake of thinking they didn't save your neighborhood from what the City did to LaVilla and Brooklyn, and much of downtown, when no one stood up for those areas.  RAP stood up to the "urban renewal" craze and got people interested in historic preservation.

Don't let neighborhood squabbles about parking around restaurants or people complaining about not being able to do whatever they want without restriction completely distract you.  There is a common good.

+1 Well said.

[ben says]

I'm not RAP bashing, in fact, I like RAP, and think they're a great organization. Maybe I started this thread off on the wrong foot. In an era of dwindling funds, financing, and interest...how can RAP market itself better? I walk around my neighborhood, and by and large, what I hear of RAP is: bashing about transportation, zoning, and the hypocrisy going on with MM and Kickbacks. How can RAP market itself better? Get more financing? More interest?

[ben says]

Furthermore, I don't think a lot of people even know what RAP does..

Outside of seeing RAP signs on the front of houses, and going to RAM a few times a year, not so sure the average citizen living in this neck of the woods knows what the benefit of RAP is.

[Bill Hoff]

It's difficult to convey what RAP, SMPS, SPAR, etc does.

Much more than just historic preservation orgs, they're general "catch alls" for their communities and touch commercial, residential, and general QOL issues.

[ben says]

It's difficult to convey what RAP, SMPS, SPAR, etc does.

Much more than just historic preservation orgs, they're general "catch alls" for their communities and touch commercial, residential, and general QOL issues.

I couldn't agree more. I think therein lies the issue. If I ask someone on the street, "Hey, do you know what RAP does for you?" Most of the time, the answer is "Hmmm, well, come to think of it, I have no idea."

That's what I'm getting at. If RAP marketed itself better to it's own residents, and people actually knew what the hell it did, and all the thoughts on RAP wasn't transportation/zoning, I think we'd all be a little better off.

[Kaiser Soze]

RAP did a lot of good things in the 1970's.  It's time is past and needs to be disbanded.  RAP does not know what RAP does.

[ben says]

RAP does not know what RAP does.

This is what I hear from people inside and outside of the organization. Too disorganized, too all over the place, no clear focus.

[vicupstate]

I agree wholeheartedly with Debbie.  RAP saved and continues to save R/A from the indifference that many hold regarding historic preservation.  Any city/neighborhood that values its history and succeeds in preserving it, has such an organization in place.

The issues they deal with are by their very nature controversial.  Therefore, there will always be those for and against the  organization, and the issues they take a stand on.   Their job is not to be popular, it is to preserve the unique and worthy elements that made R/A a special place to begin with. 

To think that any neighborhood or city (historic or not), is not going  to experience growing pains and controversy is very naive. There is no utopia where everyone agrees on the way to move forward.

Anyone that doesn't understand RAP and what it does just needs to surf their website for 5-10 minutes or read their publications. It's not rocket science and it is not hidden from view from those that care to take an interest in knowing.   

[Kaiser Soze]

Their job is not to be popular, it is to preserve the unique and worthy elements that made R/A a special place to begin with. 

Bullshit.  Its Historic Preservation's job to preserve the historic elements of Avondale and Riverside.  RAP should be there to help its constituents (i.e., Riverside/Avondale residents) in understanding the historic preservation process.  That's its job.   Unfortunately, instead of assisting residents, it acts as another roadblock.

[mtraininjax]

If you have issues with RAP, let them know.  Get involved and make changes.  But don't make the mistake of thinking they didn't save your neighborhood from what the City did to LaVilla and Brooklyn, and much of downtown, when no one stood up for those areas.  RAP stood up to the "urban renewal" craze and got people interested in historic preservation.

What RAP was in the 70s and 80s is so very different than what it has become in our era. But think back about who was living in our area back then and the Avondale Strip or King Street, it was nothing like it is today, yet RAP still has some of curmudgeons who are from the 70s and 80s thinking they can use their influence to restrict change. They cannot any longer and they are afraid of how the area is changing.

What really rubs me the absolute wrong way with RAP and worse with the City Historic Preservation, is that whatever RAP says, goes with the City enforcing it. So you cannot do hardly anything to improve your house in RA without getting a Certificate of Appropriateness first. You cannot even get 1 window replaced in the RA "historic" area, because to get a permit for window in the RA area, you have to have the COA, which means that some bureaucrat (and they know who they are) has the power to knit pick the mullions on a window that I am using as a replacement. Anything requiring a permit has to have a COA with it from RA and the Historic Preservation.

So great that they saved a road from going through Boone Park, they have no evolved into reaching their hands through my spine to tell me how I can fix and improve my house in the "historic" area. Sure, I don't want someone painting their house Neon Glowing Yellow with Rose colored shutters, but telling us how and who we can use for projects is out of line. Some of their power, and that of the City Historic area, needs to be removed and given back to the homeowners, for ultimately we all bitch and moan about properties falling into disrepair, but it stars with the homeowner and we ultimately know what is best for our own house.

I have some great friends on the board of RAP and some wonderful friends who work there, but I guess I really have been rubbed the wrong way by the City and they enforce the RAP COA. Which is why so many people do things to houses with a COA, because RAP and the CITY make it so hard to fix your homes.