Is Avondale Ready For A 7-Eleven?

[Jaxson]

Does anyone remember the Magic Marts that used to be in the area in the early 70's?  If I remember correctly they had a psuedo milton glaser double M logo in blue and green.

I do! 

[JaxNative68]

I just drove past the remnants of an old seven-eleven on lonestar road near mill creek.  The big vertical wedge element for signage was still there (seen in Jaxson's first four pictures), but was painted all white.

[simms3]

Heard that the owners (a family) consist of one guy who wants to sell and a whole array of family members committed to the $1.3M list price (basically means they don't really want to sell).  There is a brokerage(s) in town who did not take the listing for that reason (hence the thing is for sale by owner).  Basically, these aren't serious sellers.  As I said, their price basically equates to $4.8M an acre, which is unrealistic even for many larger cities.

[north miami]

They may in fact view themselves as sellers,going through all the motions.Their expectations are simply unrealistic.Why?
On what information,assumptions do the owners draw the asking price from??
The fact that professional realtors have refrained from going through the motions is telling.
the property has been offered since the height of the bubble expectation.
As I have posted here previously,could the owners be upside down,property mortgaged and unwilling,or unable to negative equity??A simple property record search might reveal insight.

And now,how about a PET SHOP??

I have been reminded  that the building two over,now sporting "Prudential" was in fact at one time a Convenience Store.......Yes?The building harbors the Convenience store look.
And when the Convenience Store .........closed it's doors.........a Pet Shop emerged for a short time.
I know of the Pet Shop first hand,for the Shop business owners Wayne Burdette and Susie were friends of mine.

[fieldafm]

Yes, where the Prudential is used to be a Lil Champ for many many years.  In fact, I can name about 5 places off the top of my head in the neighborhood that were once convenience stores(Walkers, Derby House, European Street, etc).

No one that runs a pet store can afford to buy that lot, construct a building and run a pet shop that maybe does 400k a year in revenue.

You guys simply aren't looking at this holistically.  A bright, clean 7-11 can activate continuous pedestrian activity on that spot.  The 15' setback allows for cafe style seating outside.  Clearly there is a market for quick convenient items(Publix, Walgreens and 14 other convenience stores).  There is nowhere on that strip that serves coffee, bagels, donuts and the like.  Just take a look at Margaret/Riverside.  The Einsteins and Starbucks create constant foot traffic on that corner.  That spills over to the surrounding business.  Foot traffic enhances retail vibrancy.  Anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

I for one think that if a select few people run away a context sensitive 7-11, then our community as a whole loses.  It's attitudes like this that have killed downtown retail, created this ridiculous transient vendor ban which essentially kills legitimate and legal transient vendors(food trucks, hot dog carts, etc and does nothing to enforce the laws already on the books to squeeze out illegal transient vendors) and has made Jacksonville a place that seems bent on being hostile to America's number one jobs generator (small businesses) in an employment market that sorely needs a higher supply of employers.

[Jimmy]

+1

Very well said.

[north miami]

For some reason the Avondale community has become hyper-reactive.
The stance is realistically typical of many empowered,self aware communities,and in our case coupled with bad experiences,fatigue in the face of of continuous onslaught.(Commander Apartments et al)

In classic fashion,Citizen 'work shop',Overlay and other Growth Management elements may lend an initial sense of complacency.

Lesson learned is,when unveiling a proposal,provide some concrete concepts,renditions.
This episode is no different than past initial proclamation for a (Big Box?!?!) Public for Riverside........

It's a double bind and not the first time a community has become a victim of it's own success.

The hyper reaction may not be rooted in site proposal specific,but rather issues with "Parking".That shabby corner serves as a parking "sink".Development of the property would disperse parking pressure,simply flinging out to the surrounding residential areas,which in fact is the "official" assumption.At some point,patrons will refrain from parking relatively far out in a surrounding neighborhood.

Perhaps the image,promotion of the facility will or could be serving a 'walkable' community,a patron base less dependent on arrive by vehicle.How cool.......many dream and aspire to this stuff.
So while the Change Agents chant,such a Walkable community development is uncommon.
(tongue in healthy cheek,would the Nirvana Walk patrons support even the faux healthy junk food stuffs??Picky Picky Picky!)

[cline]

And now,how about a PET SHOP??

They just opened a gigantic pet shop just up the street on Roosevelt and St. Johns.  There's also a small pet shop just a couple doors up the street in Avondale (All About the Dog).  We're probably good on pet shops.  Just like we're saturated with realtor shops in Avondale.  I think there's presently three.

Lesson learned is,when unveiling a proposal,provide some concrete concepts,renditions.

I think they just wanted to get a feel about the reception they would get for building something like this, but the word spread like wildfire and then all of the sudden people act like they're about to break ground or something.  I'm sure their intent is to provide design renderings.  We should probably give them an opportunity to do such.

I for one think that if a select few people run away a context sensitive 7-11, then our community as a whole loses.  It's attitudes like this that have killed downtown retail, created this ridiculous transient vendor ban which essentially kills legitimate and legal transient vendors(food trucks, hot dog carts, etc and does nothing to enforce the laws already on the books to squeeze out illegal transient vendors) and has made Jacksonville a place that seems bent on being hostile to America's number one jobs generator (small businesses) in an employment market that sorely needs a higher supply of employers.

Bingo.

[ChriswUfGator]

Yes, where the Prudential is used to be a Lil Champ for many many years.  In fact, I can name about 5 places off the top of my head in the neighborhood that were once convenience stores(Walkers, Derby House, European Street, etc).

No one that runs a pet store can afford to buy that lot, construct a building and run a pet shop that maybe does 400k a year in revenue.

You guys simply aren't looking at this holistically.  A bright, clean 7-11 can activate continuous pedestrian activity on that spot.  The 15' setback allows for cafe style seating outside.  Clearly there is a market for quick convenient items(Publix, Walgreens and 14 other convenience stores).  There is nowhere on that strip that serves coffee, bagels, donuts and the like.  Just take a look at Margaret/Riverside.  The Einsteins and Starbucks create constant foot traffic on that corner.  That spills over to the surrounding business.  Foot traffic enhances retail vibrancy.  Anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

I for one think that if a select few people run away a context sensitive 7-11, then our community as a whole loses.  It's attitudes like this that have killed downtown retail, created this ridiculous transient vendor ban which essentially kills legitimate and legal transient vendors(food trucks, hot dog carts, etc and does nothing to enforce the laws already on the books to squeeze out illegal transient vendors) and has made Jacksonville a place that seems bent on being hostile to America's number one jobs generator (small businesses) in an employment market that sorely needs a higher supply of employers.

Derby House has been what it is since the 50s or 60s. I think you're thinking of Carmine's, which used to be a 7-11.

FWIW, I don't mind convenience stores they're...well...convenient. If I just need milk or something and don't feel like spending 20 minutes in Publix then I often go into the A&P, they're good to have. I just wish the one on Saint Johns would re-open as a full-service gas station, there aren't that many around here and the couple that we do have are usually mobbed. I know I'm committing sacrilege by suggesting a gas station reopen on St. Johns Ave. but whatever, I think it would do a great business.

The only reason the one that's there now closed is that the owners have unrealistic expectations for the value of the property and weren't willing to help the lessees with replacing the metal tanks that had to be converted to fiberglass by the state-imposed deadline 6 or 8 years ago, if they were going to stay in business. They couldn't afford the tank replacement, so they closed. I think the family recognized the property had value back then and planned on selling it, they just grossly miscalculated what it's worth. The property has been unofficially for forever, because no broker would waste time with the listing. As overpriced as $1.3mm is, that's the lowest it's been. They're going the right direction. Slowly.

Speaking of, I still can't believe the cantina/liquor store guys found some realtor willing to waste time listing that for $2mm. You'd think this property owners had been hiding under a rock from 2008-2011 with these prices. Either that, or they don't really want to sell it. Or I guess maybe some of the commercial parcels are trapped in the same hole as many homeowners, they over-borrowed relative to the current value of the property, and can't sell it unless they somehow manage to achieve a totally unrealistic price that would satisfy the mortgage.

[Lucasjj]

I am all for an appropriately designed 7-11 in the area. What I would love to see there though would be something similar to Parker's in downtown Savannah. It offers gas, typical convenience store offerings, and cafe/lunch items. It also has outside cafe seating.

As you can see in this picture the area for gas though is mainly a drive through with two pumps along the left side. This keeps it from putting the store so far back fro the street.


Here is a link to a slide show of the interior and their offerings.
http://www.cnsrvr.com/smn/rt/parkers_market/ec.html

[fieldafm]

Derby House has been what it is since the 50s or 60s. I think you're thinking of Carmine's, which used to be a 7-11.

Carmines was one of the ones I was thinking of, yes.... but where Derby House is used to be a service station.  I believe DH opened in the early 70's.  Little cloudy on that date though.

I think Carmines actually used to be a Jiffy.  I can remember my mom always stopping there for Tab on the way to work at St Vincents when we lived off Challen.  I'm pretty sure the only 7-11 in the neighborhood was across from Fishweir when Skinners Dairy was still in operation.  Gate bought them out, then later opened up the suburban-style mega-station on Stockton and that convenience store on Herschel/St Johns is now independently owned.  He actually tried overcharging me for a soda the other day much to my chagrin

[Bativac]

Derby House has been what it is since the 50s or 60s. I think you're thinking of Carmine's, which used to be a 7-11.

Carmines was one of the ones I was thinking of, yes.... but where Derby House is used to be a service station.  I believe DH opened in the early 70's.  Little cloudy on that date though.

Derby House has been open longer than that, hasn't it? I could swear my dad telling me that place was around when he was a kid in the 1950s. (Not that this has anything to do with the opening of a 7-11 in Avondale.)

...I did a little searching and found this: http://www.judeo-christian-co-op.com/derby_house.htm with a low-res photo. It's always exciting to me when I stumble on something like that on the internet.

[John P]

Heard that the owners (a family) consist of one guy who wants to sell and a whole array of family members committed to the $1.3M list price (basically means they don't really want to sell).  There is a brokerage(s) in town who did not take the listing for that reason (hence the thing is for sale by owner).  Basically, these aren't serious sellers.  As I said, their price basically equates to $4.8M an acre, which is unrealistic even for many larger cities.

Fans and Stones in 5points has been unofficially for sale too. $1 mill a few years ago maybe less now. At the corner of the 5points intersection

[ChriswUfGator]

Derby House has been what it is since the 50s or 60s. I think you're thinking of Carmine's, which used to be a 7-11.

Carmines was one of the ones I was thinking of, yes.... but where Derby House is used to be a service station.  I believe DH opened in the early 70's.  Little cloudy on that date though.

I think Carmines actually used to be a Jiffy.  I can remember my mom always stopping there for Tab on the way to work at St Vincents when we lived off Challen.  I'm pretty sure the only 7-11 in the neighborhood was across from Fishweir when Skinners Dairy was still in operation.  Gate bought them out, then later opened up the suburban-style mega-station on Stockton and that convenience store on Herschel/St Johns is now independently owned.  He actually tried overcharging me for a soda the other day much to my chagrin

I promise Derby House was always Derby House, since at least the 40s. That wasn't one of the ones that was a gas station. I've seen old pictures of 5 Points going back 6 or 7 decades over the years and it was already there then..kind of like the bacon they serve. When you drive by their sign says their opening date I think it's 1940-something.

[ChriswUfGator]

Derby House has been what it is since the 50s or 60s. I think you're thinking of Carmine's, which used to be a 7-11.

Carmines was one of the ones I was thinking of, yes.... but where Derby House is used to be a service station.  I believe DH opened in the early 70's.  Little cloudy on that date though.

Derby House has been open longer than that, hasn't it? I could swear my dad telling me that place was around when he was a kid in the 1950s. (Not that this has anything to do with the opening of a 7-11 in Avondale.)

...I did a little searching and found this: http://www.judeo-christian-co-op.com/derby_house.htm with a low-res photo. It's always exciting to me when I stumble on something like that on the internet.

Cool photo I hadn't seen that one yet. So it's been Derby House since 1944, that's about what I was thinking.