Is Avondale Ready For A 7-Eleven?

[Allan D]

Just one opinion to the well thought out posts -

A truly great neighborhood does not turn its back on a contributing small business. A truly great neighborhood forges partnerships such as the one this business is trying to strike with its future neighbors.
   A locally owned and named small convenience store would be preferable, but given the lot and price, this is the most viable option within the foreseeable future.  As noted, their desire to strike a partnership with the neighbors (via their seeming local input requests) makes them the next best thing.

In the early 90's there was a convenience store next to Underwood. 
As a kid I used to ride my bike up to that gas station to get air in my tires. I think it would be nice to have a place where kids can walk or ride their bikes to and get soda or candy.
   Back in the day, it was a rite of passage to be old enough to cross St. John’s on our own to get tire air then visit the Lil’ Champ (now Prudential Realty) to spend our allowance on candy and Donkey Kong.

I've decided I like it for the neighborhood if the building is context-sensitive.  I have no illusions that it will be multi-story or mixed use.  I expect a single-story structure that adheres to the overlay.
   In my limited experience, this is where it gets tricky because of the parking.  The Overlay states in Sec. 656.399.22. Commercial  Character Area Design Standards

1   - Parking Location.  Parking is encouraged to be located at the rear of the primary structure.
2    - Parking Requirements.
-   â€¦zero (0) parking shall be required of new structures when such structures are built to the same or less than the square footage of a non-conforming structure if that structure is being replaced.  However, all adjacent on-street parking shall be brought into compliance with Section 656.399.23(2)(b)(i-iv) and Table 4.  Otherwise, the number of spaces for retail sales and service establishments and multi-family uses shall be 50% of the required number of spaces pursuant to Section 656.604….  However contiguous on-street parking may be provided consistent with Section 656.399.23(2)(b)(i-iv) and Table 4.
       
   Per the Duval property appraiser’s office, the current structure is 2,689 square feet.  The lot is 0.28 acres or 12,632 square feet.  Replacing the structure with a similar or smaller sized structure to trigger the 0 space requirement would underutilize the lot.  656.604 states that all parking spaces must be off street.  Under certain circumstances, the Planning Department and RAP have agreed to allow on-street contiguous spaces to satisfy that requirement, especially in more urban or commercial areas.  Given this location is in the boundaries of the Historic District and surrounded by a residential district, a sensitively balanced compromise seems necessary.

   That said, I don’t have CAD, nor am I any expert, but
o   With a new commercial building, 1 space would be required for every 600 square feet of gross floor area (usually 1 per 300, but reduced by 50% per the Overlay)
o   A two story 13,200 square foot building would require 22 spaces, leaving 6,032 sq ft for parking. 
o   A double-sided rear configured lot would require 4,950 sq feet.  9 foot wide spaces x 11=99 feet (the lot is 100 feet wide).  Spaces must be 19 feet in length + 12 foot travel lane + 19 feet spaces on the other side = 50 feet.  99x50=4,950 sq feet. 
o   The last hurdle is â€" can the extra sq feet (based on my layman’s numbers) 1,032 be used in a creative way to satisfy 656.399.23(2)(b)(i-iv) which requires 1 canopy tree for every 3 new spaces? 
     
To be honest, the major market for the store is probably the employees and visitors of the surrounding retail and dining establishments.  So most of the traffic generated will be on foot, which was the goal of all those sidewalk and pedestrian amenities recently completed along the strip.
   Totally agree.  All the “undesirables” this establishment is pre-maturely accused of bringing to the neighborhood will likely pass by the other outlying convenience stores mentioned before reaching the Shoppes of Avondale and, I suspect, stop there for their 40’s, cigarettes and hot dogs.  It seems more likely this store will see more walk up, neighborhood traffic.

You mentioned RAP - at this point, RAP is not taking a stance, as we are currently soliciting feedback from the neighborhood. With that said, if this does come to fruition, I have no doubt that RAP will definitely ensure that the building is built in full compliance with the design regulations outlined by the historic district and the restrictions in the zoning overlay. In particular, it will be built up to the street, and will definitely have appropriate signage. Look at the one in Boston as an example.
   RAP’s openness to hear all the affected neighbor’s opinions first and make decisions later is a great example of fair representation.  No doubt they will represent their members (constituents) appropriately.  Additionally, compliance with the Zoning code and Overlay are appropriate and indicative of their existence â€" thought out law, not individually or emotionally applied.

[fsujax]

Anyone see the news story on Channel 4 last night about this? It was kind of funny, the reporter was saying how none of the business owners within the district wanted to go on camera saying they oppose the store. They did ask plenty passerbys and most of them were against it.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/28663729/detail.html

[funguy]

As a property owner of several buildings in Avondale I am all for the 7/11.. It is needed..
I wonder if some of the protesting merchants are doing so because they would lose some parking spots.
I think it is a GREAT use of the space..
Dennis

[GideonGlib]

It seems to me that no matter how upscale a neighborhood is, that a little downscale diversity like this helps traffic and a feeling of energy in the area,  and it's not like there are "Biscotti's type people" and "7 eleven type people", the same folks who go out for a nice dinner on Saturday night, also might need a newspaper and a candy bar for the kids Sunday morning or a fountain drink to sip on during their commute to work in Southpoint Monday morning. I think the key would be doing the architecture right to fit in with the neighborhood....which already has a Prudential Reality that was a Jiffy Store and the site was formerly a shell station. Eh...

[fieldafm]

A locally owned and named small convenience store would be preferable, but given the lot and price, this is the most viable option within the foreseeable future.  As noted, their desire to strike a partnership with the neighbors (via their seeming local input requests) makes them the next best thing.

The problem with that is what you see with the convenience store at Herschel/St Johns.  That was a 7-11(I mowed many lawns to fund their slurpee machine, and they used to sell Topps, Fleer and Upper Deck baseball card packs) before Gate bought it. Then Gate left to open the suburban style store on Stockton.  Without having to adhere to the rigorous coporate standards of a 7-11, the store is now in disrepair.

I think there is a market for a clean, well run and context sensitive neighborhood.  If 14 (only two of which are nicely kept and cater to something other than loosies and singles) can exist in the neighborhood... why can't a well designed, context-sensitive walk up urban store that you see in many thriving urban neighborhoods (there is one in Lakeview and Wicker Park in Chicago I just visited that I really wish I would have taken a picture of now) that offers a pallatable product mix be successful?  Hey, 7-11 has cheap wine comparable to Two Buck Chuck sold at Trader Joes.  I think this store can be a real success.

Back in the day, it was a rite of passage to be old enough to cross St. John’s on our own to get tire air then visit the Lil’ Champ (now Prudential Realty) to spend our allowance on candy and Donkey Kong.

Haha, I had high score on that Donkey Kong for many months one summer.  It was by far one of the highlights of my youth.  BTW, Lil Champ had the best donuts... the one with the little boxer champ on the label.  It's amazing how much sugar a kid can consume and not go blind.

but given the lot and price

I totally agree.  There is an economic reality that is staring a developer in the face when looking to acquire that parcel given the size and price of that lot. 

The last hurdle is â€" can the extra sq feet (based on my layman’s numbers) 1,032 be used in a creative way to satisfy 656.399.23(2)(b)(i-iv) which requires 1 canopy tree for every 3 new spaces? 

I totally think so.  Check out the link to the picture I posted.  I walked the site Saturday and can totally see how an oak tree a few parking spots and pedestrian-activating features like an outdoor cafe area can fit... given the space requirements that 7-11 needs for an urban walk up store design.
Bear in mind this is using my ultra sophisticated eyeballs and size 13 feet to make measurements... but I'm actually quite good at site layout in my head 

[ubben]

There already is a nice live oak tree on the corner of this lot across from the Brick. But I'm sure a developer can screw that up and find a way to chop it down. In fact, they should consult JEA or the Chew Restaurant people who chopped down that huge old oak tree on the corner of their lot in Five Points. I mean, the people of Riverside and Avondale really, really hate beautiful old oak trees. Kill them all! There used to a be a nice long row of live oaks on that side of St. Johns Avenue. Now only five remain.

PS: Lets stop using the picture of the quaint brick Boston 7-11. This architecture is not what we are going to get. Using that picture makes it seem ok. We all know damn well it'll be a crap stucco one-story building like you'd see in a mini mall in Daytona. Throw a little clay tiles on the roof and 'poof' it's Avondalefied! Ugh.

[fieldafm]

There already is a nice live oak tree on the corner of this lot across from the Brick. But I'm sure a developer can screw that up and find a way to chop it down. In fact, they should consult JEA or the Chew Restaurant people who chopped down that huge old oak tree on the corner of their lot in Five Points. I mean, the people of Riverside and Avondale really, really hate beautiful old oak trees. Kill them all! There used to a be a nice long row of live oaks on that side of St. Johns Avenue. Now only five remain.

PS: Lets stop using the picture of the quaint brick Boston 7-11. This architecture is not what we are going to get. Using that picture makes it seem ok. We all know damn well it'll be a crap stucco one-story building like you'd see in a mini mall in Daytona. Throw a little clay tiles on the roof and 'poof' it's Avondalefied! Ugh.

It really is amazing how much self-perpetuating cynicism this town creates for itself.  If we all redirected just a 1/10th of that energy into something constructive and make positive things happen... it would be amazing what we could accomplish.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

PS: Lets stop using the picture of the quaint brick Boston 7-11. This architecture is not what we are going to get. Using that picture makes it seem ok. We all know damn well it'll be a crap stucco one-story building like you'd see in a mini mall in Daytona. Throw a little clay tiles on the roof and 'poof' it's Avondalefied! Ugh.

and I'll refer you a couple of posts back....

^^^ how about waiting for the design ideas before condemning?

[Jaxson]

PS: Lets stop using the picture of the quaint brick Boston 7-11. This architecture is not what we are going to get. Using that picture makes it seem ok. We all know damn well it'll be a crap stucco one-story building like you'd see in a mini mall in Daytona. Throw a little clay tiles on the roof and 'poof' it's Avondalefied! Ugh.

and I'll refer you a couple of posts back....

^^^ how about waiting for the design ideas before condemning?

Well played, Non-Redneck Westsider!

[duvaldude08]

PS: Lets stop using the picture of the quaint brick Boston 7-11. This architecture is not what we are going to get. Using that picture makes it seem ok. We all know damn well it'll be a crap stucco one-story building like you'd see in a mini mall in Daytona. Throw a little clay tiles on the roof and 'poof' it's Avondalefied! Ugh.

Wow you must have the inside scoop. None of the rest of us have seen the rendering    Seriously, chill out. 7-eleven is seeking input because they have the same concern that the resident do.

P.S. Avondale is far from Beverly Hills or Rodeo Dr. When did Jax become so grand?

[Bativac]

At what point does 7-11 say "Whoa! This is a lot of pushback and discussion over a convenience store! Nevermind, you guys! Sorry we asked!"

News4Jax front page story, for example: "Store Owners Fight Against Jax 7-Eleven" Here's a quote: "Members of the Avondale community are making their voices heard on Facebook, too. Avondale residents have started a page called "Avondale Says NO! To Convenience Stores!" The page was set up by a store in the center of Avondale called Cowford Traders."

[Jaxson]

In the shadow of Baltimore's monument to George Washington is a 7-Eleven.  Mount Vernon is a nice place and would give Avondale a run for its money.  Check out Mount Vernon on the Internet --- http://www.mvcd.org/.

[Jaxson]

I am surprised by how the Times-Union message board folks are chiming in on the proposed Avondale 7-Eleven issue...  Here is another comment that I read...

Hi Jaxson,

jokerZwild has commented on: "7-Eleven considers development in Avondale"

You can view the comment at the following url
http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-07-25/story/7-eleven-considers-development-avondale#comment-444655

---Text of the comment---
My concern is we have a vibrant neighborhood, a local shopping area that has
a certain family appeal, said Deb Fewell , owner of Cowford Traders in
Avondale and the person behind the “Avondale says no” page. We just want
to make sure that whoever comes into the neighborhood fits into what we
already have.
*********************************
Which is slang for no minorities, no poor people, no undesirables and anyone
else who might not fit into what THEY think the neighborhood should be like.


----

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Source: The Florida Times-Union

[cline]

We can go back and forth over the perceived advantages or disadvantages of having a chain convenience store in the Shoppes but the bottom line is that right now all we have there is a dirt lot with an abandoned building.  That's all we've had for years now due to many reason (some of which have been discussed on this thread at length i.e. asking price to high).  Is a dirt lot really the type of land use that we want right now?  As much as we would all like to see some 3 story mixed use development built there--ain't going to happen.  Say what you want about 7-11, but the fact is that they have come forward with this idea to put one of their stores on this spot.  That's more than many have done.  They have money, they've proven that they can build context-sensitive buildings and, most importantly, they are making an effort to reach out to the community to gain feedback about whether or not this is something the neighborhood would even want.  Let's wait and see what the design looks like before we throw stones.  It sounds like they are going to give us residents plenty of opportunity to offer our opinions and contribute to this meaningful discussion.

[Bativac]

Jacksonville: Where Florida Begins and Where That Small Town Mindset Flourishes

I found this letter that 7-Eleven submitted to a community they planned to open a store in: http://www.woodstockpdx.org/pdf/GoodNeighborPlan121410.pdf

It looks like they strive to be a decent neighbor and try to fit in with the established area. Hope the community will let up a little and work with 7-Eleven versus convincing them to stay away. As appealing as an abandoned building is....