Georgia plans to toll I-75 and I-575; Jacksonville next?

[thelakelander]

I'll have to go back and check, but I believe the I-295 Collins/Blanding work is being funded by FDOT.  However, throught the BJP, we've sunk hundreds of millions into improving and extending other sections of Collins to feed into this project.  By the same token, 9B is a part of the BJP as well.  Yes, its literally economic suicide to continue to finance projects that create economic opportunities in other counties at the expense of your own.  With that said, I'm not making a claim that adjacent counties should not seek or don't deserve economic growth of their own.  I'm just saying the things we publicly finance should be done to improve and not subtract, from the community.

[thelakelander]

But there are state roads in Duval County with which my taxes maintain as well. You going to toll me to drive on a state road? SR21 Blanding is a state road. Duval does not own it, and only partially maintains it, the rest comes from the FDOT. US17 is a state/Federal Road, Duval does not own nor maintain it.

Argument lost for entering Duval from Clay.

I just wouldn't spend local money on improving these facilities or associated local projects that are designed to feed into them.  Instead I'd let the state fund them 100%.  Since the state doesn't have much cash, such an option would cut down excessive road construction pretty quick.  People would have to accept a higher level of gridlock and congestion.  Locally, I'd focus on changing the zoning in Duval to allow for higher densities and mixes of uses and support that decision by providing better transit to the areas north of the county line.  Hopefully, such an example would encourage Clay to follow suit and extend such concepts across the border.

[jandar]

Forgot to add, even 103rd st is maintained by the FDOT. No taxes from Duval County pay for it. Its state funded (from taxes from everyone).

Im sure I could find a ton of roads that are maintained by the FDOT inside Duval County.

[thelakelander]

I'm sure you can.  However, is it in Duval's best interest to widen an Old Middleburg Road or Collins to make it easier to get from Oakleaf to points north?  How does such an expensive decision benefit the residential neighborhoods that have already been established in these areas?  These are the types of projects I'd slow down on investing in on a local level.  That money saved could be used for a variety of other needs locally.

[iMarvin]

Why do all you guys have a problem with people working in one county and commuting to another? That's how all major cities work. Without those people coming to Duval to work, Jacksonville wouldn't have a metro area. It would just be Duval!

I dont have a problem except for using the roads and other infrastructure while letting Duval residents pay for them.  A small toll for commuters from other counties would only be fair...

Every time I fill my gas up in Duval, I pay for road improvements.

but not in proportion to the amount of expense that it takes to maintain those roads for you.

But there are state roads in Duval County with which my taxes maintain as well. You going to toll me to drive on a state road? SR21 Blanding is a state road. Duval does not own it, and only partially maintains it, the rest comes from the FDOT. US17 is a state/Federal Road, Duval does not own nor maintain it.

Argument lost for entering Duval from Clay.

My argument has already been argued by others. When people come to Duval to work, they spend money here. It's not like they just work here. Most of the people buy lunch and gas here. So to make them have to pay more money to come into Duval to work doesn't make sense to me. That's all I'm saying.

[jandar]

My argument has already been argued by others. When people come to Duval to work, they spend money here. It's not like they just work here. Most of the people buy lunch and gas here. So to make them have to pay more money to come into Duval to work doesn't make sense to me. That's all I'm saying.

Agree with you entirely. Any purchase made in Duval County is helping to pay for its resources. When someone works in Duval, lives in Clay, and buys lunch during the week, who's tax base is helped? Duval. Clay county would lose on that potential revenue.

This whole work in my county but don't live in it BS is just that, BS.

Take schools for example. My wife's school has to kick kids out of it that belong in Duval County. Why? The school system gets local funding from residents, and only gets money from the state for the kids that are living in county. The state doesn't give the clay county school any money for a duval county resident who cheats the system.

Roads are not like that, gas taxes are to pay for the upkeep and construction. However, this is not the case. So yes, even if I buy gas in Orange Park, or even Orlando, some of my cost is in state tax that is then redistrubted back to the counties, all, not just a single county.

[iMarvin]

My argument has already been argued by others. When people come to Duval to work, they spend money here. It's not like they just work here. Most of the people buy lunch and gas here. So to make them have to pay more money to come into Duval to work doesn't make sense to me. That's all I'm saying.

Agree with you entirely. Any purchase made in Duval County is helping to pay for its resources. When someone works in Duval, lives in Clay, and buys lunch during the week, who's tax base is helped? Duval. Clay county would lose on that potential revenue.

This whole work in my county but don't live in it BS is just that, BS.

Take schools for example. My wife's school has to kick kids out of it that belong in Duval County. Why? The school system gets local funding from residents, and only gets money from the state for the kids that are living in county. The state doesn't give the clay county school any money for a duval county resident who cheats the system.

Roads are not like that, gas taxes are to pay for the upkeep and construction. However, this is not the case. So yes, even if I buy gas in Orange Park, or even Orlando, some of my cost is in state tax that is then redistrubted back to the counties, all, not just a single county.

Exactly.

[tufsu1]

How much does it cost to cross the Hudson in NYC?  There's nothing wrong with living in one county and working in another.  The problem arises when one county's residents are subsidizing the other county's lifestyle.  Having Duval County residents partially finance projects like 9B and Chaffee/Outer Beltway to help send people and jobs out of Duval isn't the solution.  With that said, I'm not opposed to a "pay to play" fee (like a toll at the county line), assuming its fair to all.  I also would not have a problem with Duval not investing in our working against projects that ultimately weaken its tax base either.  The money saved by not addressing roads like Blanding, the Outer Beltway, San Jose, A1A, 9B, etc. could be spent in other fashions that give us a higher ROI.

Did/ Is Duval county spend/ Spending money on the Blanding-295 exit, Collins road exit and 9B?  That is just crazy literally sending people away.

in theory no...it is funded by FDOT

In practice yes....because it comes from state and Federal tax dollars..which are paid by folks in Duval as well

[thelakelander]

Everyone should know by now that gas taxes don't cover the cost for roads and neither do buying an occasional sandwich, soup or salad at lunch.  For example, a significant chunk of the costs for Jax's recent road projects came from the BJP and we still can't afford to construct and maintain them.  So the question becomes, how do we properly resolve this issue?  I'll agree that outright tolling at the county line may not be the best solution, but neither is remaining status quo.

[jandar]

How about taking back the funding from JTA? They seem to be asking for more in taxes, yet cannot explain how they spent what they got in the first place half of the time.

[CS Foltz]

jandar, that goes without saying by my standards! How about we just put toll booths on our side of the county line and be done with it? Charge extra for trucks and force them to use rail instead!

[exnewsman]

This is the perfect example of why a regional transportation approach is needed in Northeast Florida. If you only think about things in your own tiny little world and not the bigger picture then everyone will suffer. With representation from all of the counties - planning, road construction, transit and funding become a regional mission - not just a county-by-county one.

[CS Foltz]

exnewsman.......I got no problem with that! Problem that I have seen is who is the lead dog ? We don't need another "Consultant Report" generated, but JTA is not the lead of anything! Those bovines can not even manage their own house and they do not need to be overseeing another agency! Someone has to be directing and all of the issue's I have seen discussed  make the surrounding area's playing second fiddle. Don't know about you, but Federal governance is not what we need! There was a thread here that had some discussion regarding the situation.

[thelakelander]

exnewsman, I have no problem with a regional approach.  That's something we should have been doing decades ago.

[CS Foltz]

lake, I concur! This is something that should have been done long long ago! Either way, JTA does not need to be flying lead on a "Regional Transportation Agency"!