Outer Beltway Dead? Now What?

[cline]

Grids don't have to be in straight lines.  Heck, even providing more roadway network connectivity to disperse traffic doesn't have to be in the form of a typical grid, as long as alternative parallel and perpendicular routes are created in the process.  For example, could it be possible to extend Consititution Drive east of Charles Pinckney Street along, what appears to be a utility easement, to Branan Field Road?  Such a route could also tie in with potential extensions of Chestwick Oak Avenue and Oakleaf Village Parkway.

I'm aware that it doesn't have to be an actual grid but in between Wells and Kingsley, there aren't a whole lot of north-south connectors which is why traffic just gets pumped out on Blanding.

I do completely agree with your examples though.  Just a few short connections could make a world of difference.  One other that comes to mind for a east-wast connection would be to connect Wells Road to Aquarius Concourse (just east of Blanding).  It can't be more than 500 feet and could help to alleviate some of the pressures of residents entering and exiting that neighborhood at the other egress/ingress points.

[thelakelander]

^I wasn't responding to you when I posted that reply.  It just took me a little while to hit send (I was multitasking ).

[cline]

^I wasn't responding to you when I posted that reply.  It just took me a little while to hit send (I was multitasking ).

No worries.  I just think this is a classic example of connectivity (or in this case lack thereof).  There's simply no way in hell we are going to be able to fix congestion on Blanding by widening the road.  We could make it 10 lanes double decked and it would still be backed up during the peak hour.  Our best bet is to offer optional routes of travel - many of which you outlined above.  The Blanding corridor suffers from an egregious lack of zoning regulations and what's done can't be undone at this point. 

While I do feel like there should be alternative routes, I do not think the outer beltway should be considered one of them.  Just to be clear

[tufsu1]

I do completely agree with your examples though.  Just a few short connections could make a world of difference.  One other that comes to mind for a east-wast connection would be to connect Wells Road to Aquarius Concourse (just east of Blanding).  It can't be more than 500 feet and could help to alleviate some of the pressures of residents entering and exiting that neighborhood at the other egress/ingress points.

working on some "grid" connection ideas right now...Lake and cline provide some interesting ideas!

[jandar]

Grids don't have to be in straight lines.  Heck, even providing more roadway network connectivity to disperse traffic doesn't have to be in the form of a typical grid, as long as alternative parallel and perpendicular routes are created in the process.  For example, could it be possible to extend Consititution Drive east of Charles Pinckney Street along, what appears to be a utility easement, to Branan Field Road?  Such a route could also tie in with potential extensions of Chestwick Oak Avenue and Oakleaf Village Parkway.

There is a plan to extend Cleveland Avenue to Branan Field and extend Cheswick Oaks down to it. This also makes a direct route for Oakleaf to Fleming Island for example.
Construction is slated to begin in 2014.
This is a much better choice than widening Constitution Ave.

Another example would be Barlett Avenue and Parkwood Drive, just south of Orange Park Mall.  It would appear that with minimal public investment (about 710 feet of asphalt and a culvert over a ditch), multiple neighborhoods could be tied together, creating another option for residents to move around Orange Park without using Blanding and Wells. This short connection piece could also tie into a potential short two lane road paralleling the ditch, providing direct access to Orange Park Mall.

I've always thought this too, Parkwood dead ends into a ball field. Im not sure how much land the cemetery owns around there though.

One last example, would be Wells and Collins Road.  A short connection (perhaps adjacent to the CSX track) could connect both of these streets together, providing a third option for getting under I-295.  Such a minimal investment would be another form of making it possible to disperse existing travel patterns by moving some vehicle trips away from the Blanding and Roosevelt interchanges.

It would be better than trying to fight Argyle Civic Association, they don't want Orange Park traffic in their neighborhoods, and fight tooth and nail to block an Argyle/Wells connector.

I'm pretty sure if we looked hard enough, more connectivity improvment possiblities like this could be found and implemented for a fraction of the cost of building a far out limited access facility.

Look at the link I placed, its a PDF or current and pending construction in Clay County.


www.dot.state.fl.us/publicinformationoffice/construc/pdf%20files/CLAY.pdf

[north miami]

The "vision' of a Wells Road extension westward to Brannon/Chaffee officially stems way back to the 70's and early 80's (Board of County Commissioners Resolutions).Exhaustive 'study'.Incredibly expensive-after all,the roadway would traverse OVER-a bridge across extensive wetland belts-a major water recharge area,once deemed too sensitive to screw with by a long parted Clay Planner (R.Post)Even speculative land transactions......the parcels carved out to adjoin the anticipated roadway centerline forever a matter of public record....not that anyone here knows of this which is a hint as to why we are in this current state of affairs.
It was this same myopic outlook-the same cast of charcters, politics,pressures,the very same faces behind the demise of SR 21,that fostered the beltway.
An era passing,by virtue of it's own recklessness.

[cline]

Incredibly expensive-after all,the roadway would traverse OVER-a bridge across extensive wetland belts-a major water recharge area,once deemed too sensitive to screw with by a long parted Clay Planner (R.Post)

Unfortunately that didn't stop Orange Park Country Club from filling in said wetlands for homes.  This issue is made clear by looking at the placement of that subdivision on an aerial photo.  Sad.

[north miami]

Incredibly expensive-after all,the roadway would traverse OVER-a bridge across extensive wetland belts-a major water recharge area,once deemed too sensitive to screw with by a long parted Clay Planner (R.Post)

Unfortunately that didn't stop Orange Park Country Club from filling in said wetlands for homes.  This issue can be easily seen by looking at the placement of that subdivision on an aerial photo.  Sad.

No question the intrusions have been massive.And all under the roof of environmental agency review,mitigation,management.....
Some aspirations such as Wells Road extension are just too wacko for even the most ardent,'conservative' booster and government.
Some wetland impact proposals have brought existing residents to tears at public meetings.Quality of Life Crock.
Future 'planned' impacts,yet unseen,are equally provocative to the discerning.

[north miami]

Re: Wells Road westard extension speculation:(Or,if 'spec' is too strong,shall we say "anticipation","planning"...)

See Clay County records   Official Record Book & Page 557-539      574-27
Parcels half way between Blanding and Brannon Field,adjoining at centerline of (proposed) S-228A (Wells Road extension)

Another dandy PR Book-Page is the parcel just southwest of where Brannon Field and Wells would have joined-(North half of Section 18,T4S,R25E) and a key present day Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan related feature.
Official Record Book 270  Page 214 and subsequent
Possibly not easily accessable via the internet,"270" and subsequent goes back a ways-one may have to make a foray to the Clay County Court House and abstract.And you will typically find blind trusts and other fire walls but with enough microscope a revealing picture of the drivers can possibly be found.The Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan future roadways certainly depicts where we ended up.It's what our heads look like served on a fancy platter.
North half S18,T4s,R25E

[Mattius92]

Any plans to extend more roads to Branan-Field needs to be first addressed by improving the Clay segment of Branan-Field. Though personally I believe Clay is screwed, because they have no money (or maybe brains) to improve their infrastructure. With 180,000+ people and two main routes for those people to commute out of Clay into Duval, its just a hellhole. Branan Field is emerging as a third primary route to commute into Duval, but the 2-lane Clay segment is just horrible.

I so say that subdivisions have killed Clay, grid networks are so much better, and personally I don't see why they are so unappealing.

[Doctor_K]

...With 180,000+ people and two main routes for those people to commute out of Clay into Duval, its just a hellhole... 

I so say that subdivisions have killed Clay, grid networks are so much better, and personally I don't see why they are so unappealing.

I can only imagine what would happen to that traffic hellhole (great description for it, btw) if any kind of commuter rail actually started running up 17 from Kingsley or even Doctor's Inlet.

Perchance to dream...

[Mattius92]

And I agree with you, Jacksonville might be big, but we aren't exactly skimpy on rail lines either. Almost every major route in Jacksonville has a rail line near it. Only makes sense to go commuter rail, yet will it happen...

[north miami]

Re: Wells Road westard extension speculation:(Or,if 'spec' is too strong,shall we say "anticipation","planning"...)

See Clay County records   Official Record Book & Page 557-539      574-27
Parcels half way between Blanding and Brannon Field,adjoining at centerline of (proposed) S-228A (Wells Road extension)

Another dandy PR Book-Page is the parcel just southwest of where Brannon Field and Wells would have joined-(North half of Section 18,T4S,R25E) and a key present day Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan related feature.
Official Record Book 270  Page 214 and subsequent
Possibly not easily accessable via the internet,"270" and subsequent goes back a ways-one may have to make a foray to the Clay County Court House and abstract.And you will typically find blind trusts and other fire walls but with enough microscope a revealing picture of the drivers can possibly be found.The Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan future roadways certainly depicts where we ended up.It's what our heads look like served on a fancy platter.
North half S18,T4s,R25E