Strider banned from SPAR building

[soxfan]

Just a quick question for Stephen. If you don't mind. Who is the "former Spar board member that you keep referring to?? I don't seem to remember anyone having that much power as to convince the whole neighborhood to turn on people and their business practices.. I'm just curious who had that much power besides Louise, I don't really know anyone on the board. They're all a little old to be frolicking in the same crowd as I...

[ChriswUfGator]

Your position is pretty well undermined by the very fact that there even IS a "list"...

The point I'm making is no one has seen any such list, yet on here dozens of people have received it with explicit instruction on what they should do with it. Why would a Historic neighborhood group keep a list of illegal and legal fill-in-the-blank houses? Because some were grandfathered in and some were not. If a resident calls about what they think is an illegal house SPAR can tell them 1) nope, its grandfathered don't worry about it or 2) that's a potential issue and ask zoning to get involved. That seems like normal stuff.

Do they like Joe? Sure doesn't sound like it. But its quite an assumption to think they are sending out the hounds on everyone. Anyway gotta go, actually have other things to do on a Friday night.

And you know, what we have here looks likes a case of "I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but I just can't help myself from opining in it anyway". The information you claim is missing is actually right there plain as day at the beginning of the thread;

After answering her questions, I asked for a copy of the list of illegal boarding houses that Mr. McVay indicated that residents should get to call in additional complaints about to the city of Jacksonville’s code enforcement. I was told that she would not give out the list.  I said that was a good thing and that our houses should not be on any list.  She took offense at that and insulted us by implying that we were running illegal rooming houses.

So, if you had actually read the correspondence posted at the beginning, you would see that not only is the list disseminated, but a SPAR representative is encouraging people to obtain a copy and call COJ about the businesses on it. I have never known Strider to lie, and as a general thought I doubt many people would lie in an open letter that they are not only posting publicly, but already sent to the very people they'd allegedly be lying about. That would be a little unusual, to say the least, wouldn't you say?

[sheclown]

http://www.sparcouncil.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4838&p=40888#p40888

[sheclown]

What set Joe off was the display which read "No rooming houses, Not now, Not ever" displayed on a table in the SPAR office.  It didn't say anything like "No More". 

Also, check out the Women's Club Orange Blossom Notes, or whatever it is called.  Claude addressed the group and talked about petitions or a rally against rooming houses.

How can this be anything but detrimental to the neighborhood?  How can this NOT cause a "them versus us" mentality?  Don't they realize that people who live in rooming houses have computers?  Read Orange Blossom newsletters?  Just how in the world are these people suppose to feel?  About themselves?  About the place they live? 

[sheclown]

And while we're at it.  Just who do you think restored your pretty little home? The men (and women) who live in the halfway houses and the rooming houses.    They built this neighborhood.  They know your house better than you do.

[fsu813]

ChirsUF,

i already gave you an example of a group of people that are non-SPAR like who SPAR does welcome: the young, alternative, Zombie Bikes-crowd, persay. there goes your theory.


sheclown,

how can attempting to get rooming houses out of a neighborhood be anything but a bad thing? (ha) is this a serious question? b/c noone wants to live next to one. right or wrong, they carry a stigma, which they've earned to some degree, not all. and when there is a concentration of them in a 1x1 area of the largest freaking city in the US.....well, that's not gonna be looked on as a good thing.

[sheclown]

My goodness.  Main Street looks like a war zone.  There are a dozen slabs, shin level, sitting abandoned scattered throughout the neighborhood, aborted plans for the future.  There are "F" schools disgracing our city, frightening levels of unemployment.  Businesses, restaurants, offices are closing every hour, and we (I'm talking here as PEOPLE) want to waste our energy chasing out some poor people who live in rooming houses?  People who have a LEGAL right to live here whether or not, you like it?

Weren't these same arguments made against people of color, especially in this city, just a few decades ago? 

Don't you understand that this type of hatred (and I'm not just talking about your comments, I'm talking about the "leaders" in the neighborhood in their much publicized campaign) this type of intolerance carries with it a much larger stench than anything you fear from rooming houses.

What will come next?  Pointy white hats and burning crosses?

[strider]

Just a few comments on some of the recent posts.

In the case of the complaints directed at some of our houses, we know they are from SPAR Council.  Not just because the complaint form said so, but because we know they called and complained that we were not found in violation of anything.  Because they insisted on re-opening cases because the result of the complaint wasn’t what they wanted.   We were visited by supervisors, specialists and still, we are told by the “experts” at SPAR Council that our legal and over inspected rentals are illegal.  Louise even suggested that the city simply wasn’t doing it’s job.  We must be illegal because Louise and the rest of SPAR Council’s executive board thinks we are, and as they do not even have to follow their own by-laws, then by all that is LOLA in the world, they must be right.   

Remember that the 300K house that is just down the block from that legal rooming house was only worth 5 to 10K when the rooming house was opened.  The rooming house was still there when the house in question was worth 50K, then 100K and still when the house became worth 500K, you guessed it, that rooming house was still just down the block.  By now though, there is a good chance that the rooming house received some needed repairs and a fresh coat of paint. Today, since that 500K house is now only worth 300K, some are blaming the rooming house.  Of course, you can just ignore the fact that the rooming house was right there as the community and therefore the house raised in value and desirability.  You must at all cost find something to blame for the lost value so let’s pick on that rooming house.  A very intelligent thing to do. 

The “list” does indeed exist.  While I can’t prove it, the indications are there that some have gotten the list.  Why else post a call for additional complaints against the 12 “illegal” rooming houses.? This list more than likely does not contain  the known legal rooming houses as it does seem to be about “illegal” ones.  The only reason to have the list is to help make complaints. Common sense.  However, Louise may have been telling the truth about not handing the list out.  Perhaps they read it to people over the phone?

SPAR Council certainly does support a program that hurts both real estate values and desirability within Historic Springfield.  It supports it’s own programs of exclusivity often with false information and innuendo and normally ends up with mud on it’s face. The SPAR Councils executive board promotes distrust and disgust within many of the local businesses and those same sentiments are now being spread through many within the CoJ offices.  The old SPAR was not liked by the city because they could not work with anyone.  Don’t believe all this?  All you have to do is not take my word for it and go talk to the business owners themselves. 

[buckethead]

I have followed this trainwreck of a thread and as an outside observer, with no other interest in springfield than admiring its beauty, perhaps I could weigh in with a bit of pragmatism.

Springfield will die, if left uninhabited.
Drug addicts abound within her borders.
So long as there are warm bodies in these structures, they will stand rather than rot.
Serving to aid addicts become citizens is a noble endeavor.
Keeping residents in these historic structures stops the decay, even if it does not restore them to thier former glory.

Is it not a good thing to encourage addicts to become better neighbors while preserving historic structures?

Would your property values face better prospects with those same addicts meandering your streets?

Looks like SPAR would rather see a forced "clean up". Good luck with that!

[fsu813]

Sheclown,

you must be deflector / straw man-in-chief.

yes, there are plenty of negatives to be addressed in the neighborhood. an abundaance of rooming/rehab houses is one of them to a lot people. it may not be high on the list, relatively, which is my opinion, but i'd rather them not all be there. If that's something SPAR can affect then that's fine with me, as impacting many of the larger issues is out of thier league. if they could have an impact on some of the more important blights, then i'd be all for that. they try, but are much harder to resolve. i suppose they have to pick winnable battles, otherwise they are wasting thier time. they have deemed the issue of rehab/boarding houses winnable to some degree.


this has nothing to do color, and comparing it to that is not applicable. it is a good straw man though.


Strider,

you must have the wrong house. the only two other houses on the same block as large rehab house on Hubbard & 2nd or 1st are both new construction. thus, your story does not apply.

now, let's assume that it did apply. yes, values can go up substanially with certain undesribale things in the area, to a limit, a celing. but when you curb the undesirable things in the areas the you attract even more people, values go up.

[sheclown]

Well...by all means...

If it is more convenient and makes you feel better, go after the poor.

& yes, the arguments you use against rooming houses (and ultimately the people who inhabit them) are the same arguments used against any group of people who are different (and thereby a perceived threat) to the white middle class -- and for Heaven's sake why anyone would move into a city and not understand that diversity is a part of living downtown?!?

It is a class war.

(Ironically, current economic conditions make entrance into this lower class possible for anyone... We'll keep the light on for you! )

As far as a fight that is winnable? LOL

[strider]

FSU813’s recent post illustrates the true issue very well. 

If that's something SPAR can affect then that's fine with me, as impacting many of the larger issues is out of their league. if they could have an impact on some of the more important blights, then I’d be all for that. they try, but are much harder to resolve. i suppose they have to pick winnable battles, otherwise they are wasting their time. they have deemed the issue of rehab/boarding houses winnable to some degree

These comments describe a very common tactic.  If you can not  solve the real problems, then find an issue, real or imagined, and win that fight.  If it involves discrediting a group of people and therefore, enables you to create two different sides, your and theirs, then so much the better. It is a common political tactic and one that is not only used today by many of our politicians, it has been used through out history by the best dictators of the world.

The info sheet within the SPAR Council’s office that says “Rooming houses, Not Here, Not Now, Not Anymore”  illustrates this tactic very well.  They start with a scary story and then go right to the above. 

The purpose of an organization like SPAR Council going out after something they consider “winnable” is the making a political statement that says, “Look at us, look at all we’ve done for you. Give us more so we can do more.”  Shift the blame for something to one small group and then just allow the real issues to continue on. 

This should concern all of us as who will be next?  Who or what group will become an unintended casualty of this campaign, for there are often “innocents” sacrificed in campaigns like this.  It could be you.

[CS Foltz]

After looking at all of the posts..........I have come to this conclusion. SPAR seems to using the Johnny's smoke and mirror routine to their personnel benefit! It would seem to me that a counter organization would have merit since alot of the people who live there seem to feel that SPAR does not represent the whole but just a select few. I have already learned about how the officers did  not follow their own rules and see that this is a microcosm of the City's Administration. Maybe HUD should be contacted for not only some information but lodge a complaint!

[fsu813]

I think we've already established that despite some complaints, noone wants to put in the time, energy, and money to form another organization.


Strider,

yes - you find winnable battles. that's smart. if you can't affect large issues, solve the smaller ones. I have no idea why they took aim with boarding/rehab houses initially, but i don't really disagree with thier opposition......(as most home owners in the neighborhood won't either).

also, unlike many typical organizations, in which your framing might be accurate, virtually all SPAR members live in the neighborhood, so thier motivation is first towards improving thier neigborhood. second, these are not paid employees....so giving more 'zero' is not personal motivation, certainly. common sense tells me that SPAR has been operational on much less money than they receive now.

[sheclown]

Well...then we shall all reap what we collectively sow.