Planned development at Avenues to offer luxury bowling, theater, more

[thelakelander]

In the last decade, this type of development has typically sprung up in and around downtown areas across the US.  It will be interesting to see how successful this one turns out to be.

Toys R Us is being converted into fun for all, across from The Avenues mall.

Workers are renovating the shuttered toy store into a 45,000-square-foot, multi-function entertainment venue that will combine a bit of Dave and Buster's and San Marco Theatre with The Comedy Zone of Mandarin and a sports bar thrown in.

Called Latitude 30, the east/west demarcation for Jacksonville on a map, a cavernous floor space once home to toys, bicycles and baby clothing will have a restaurant, sports bar, arcade, gaming center and three theaters. Set to open in February, Brownstone Group managing partner Brent Brown said it took some convincing when the idea of mixing bowling alleys with a restaurant and other activities came to him.

"At first glance, I picture bowling with the old-time lanes and the bad food," Brown said. "It took a little convincing to jump on board."

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/business/2009-09-12/story/planned_development_at_avenues_to_offer_luxury_bowling_theater_more

[heights unknown]

Sounds like fun. Something different at least. We'll see if consumers bite and it takes off.

Heights Unknown

[CS Foltz]

I am not really sure that "Luxury Bowling" is a real money maker but you never know! It might be the next Apple of the Bowling World! At least there are bus's running in that part of the world but most of the possible clientele will more than likely drive!

[tufsu1]

Splitsville in Tampa does quite well....since it is a "cool place to be seen" they get away with $5 games of bowling and $15/hour for the billiards tables!

[stephenc]

Went to a Dave and Buster's in Houston a few years ago. It had a bowling alley on the second floor.  It was the nicest thing I'd ever seen. Glass barriers in between the lanes leather seating and nice wood trim everywhere  While it's too bad this wont be downtown , it is a great concept and should work well.

[buckethead]

I'd like to say how excited I am about such an interesting and fun new establishment we'll be going to.

Maybe next time.

[ProjectMaximus]

My intuition tells me that the more successful businesses there are in that area, the more corporate allies we would have for getting the southeast corridor rail line (or Amtrak, whichever comes first) running with a station at the Avenues.

[Jason]

Great point PM.  That area will quickly become more of a destination only needing a rail link to tie it to the core.

[kBasarab]

This sounds like an interesting place though I agree with CS about not being true it can survive much.  Also I remember reading on here a while ago about Avenues Walk having a Brunswick Zone XL bowling center put in.  Which those have sports bars and what not in them as well. 

[Duke]

Intriguing...   Luxury bowling is almost an oxymoron.  I stand to remain positive though, only hoping for the best for this establishment. 

By the way, I thought I read somewhere (maybe even on this site) that the Brunswick Zone thingy wasn't happening.... 

[Clem1029]

First off, disclaimer - as I've said elsewhere, ever since I saw this place announced, I've been excited about it opening. I think it's going to be fantastic.

So with that...for the doubters about "luxury bowling," it's not as ridiculous as it sounds, and in the right environment can be a HUGE boon. An easy example is one that I've mentioned elsewhere on this site (and not to "pull an Ock" and mention it wherever possible ) - the E. 4th District in Cleveland (see the recent Elements of Urbanism thread for a little background/discussion).

One of the corner anchors on E. 4th street is The Corner Alley - a hugely popular location that's simply a luxury bowling alley and a nice restaurant with some other entertainment sections. They take reservations 3 days out for their lanes...it's a really popular destination.

Now, with that said, it's important to point out part of the draw there is location - E. 4th is probably one of the best entertaiment and night out districts in the city. On a former abandoned alleyway, you've got Corner Alley, Pickwick and Frolic (awesome restaurant/comedy club/martini bar), Lola (an upscale restaurant by Michael Symon of Iron Chef and Food Network fame), a House of Blues, as well as a number of other bars and pubs, all in a very walkable urban environment. I've said over and over - if Jacksonville had ANYTHING resembling E. 4th St, I'd be there as often as my wallet allowed. And there's plenty of other cities that have examples of districts like this as well.

So from the looks of it, Lat30 looks to be cramming everything I loved about this district into one building:
- Luxury bowling? check.
- decent quality restaurant? check.
- comedy club? check.
- casual pub? check.
- small music venue? check.

Add a decent club and it becomes an entertainment district in itself.

And that's my fear with this - conceptually this place could be fantastic and become a real entertainment destination for Jacksonville. That said, it's location is terrible, and there's no extra draw for anyone to go there (the ginormous Wal-Mart behind it doesn't count ). The thing that makes general entertainment districts work so well is usually someone goes for one reason, and ends up getting drawn into everything around it (taking E. 4th - you go for a show at House of Blues and discover Corner Alley or something like that). Lat30 is going to need to exist as a destination unto itself, without feeding anything else around it nor being fed by anything around it. Maybe if/when the residential and other commercial aspects of Avenues Walk are built in eventually it'll help out, but who knows if it'll be around that long.

For me personally, the location is fantastically convenient and I look forward to frequenting the place when it opens. I just fear I'm the minority that applies to.

[Jason]

I'm sure it will be a big deal when it first opens but when the shine wears off I doubt it will stand the test of time.

In my perfect Jacksonville I would have added it to the recently renovated Landing.  See, I would have sold off the land to Toney Sleiman and made sure Mr. Kuhn provided a nice new mixed use tower across the street providing the necessary parking.  Add to that the newly removed Main St. ramps to make way for a linear and vertical convention center thrown together by a Sleiman/Hyatt partnership.

Alright, back to reality.  I still think this place would be better downtown at the Landing (assuming something can be done with the parking requirement.)  Just add it in on the Hogan St. side where the soon to be relocated Andrew Jackson sits.  Would look great with the comming Laura Street renovations/upgrades.

[buckethead]

Did he actually get the Landing for $6M?

Is that facility not worth four times that amount? At least?

Did he use loans from the city to pay for the puchase?

I have many quastions about Tony Sleiman, but few answers. Rumors abound.

Should I not be asking these questions?

[buckethead]

No! Ask away.

He got the building without being able to buy the land.

That partially cover it, but I would imagine the land is worth no more than four or five million dollars. Perhaps even as much as seven million. As for the structure, it must be somewhere between 15 and 25 million dollars. I cannot imagine such a structure being built for 6 million.

How did he pull that deal?

[reednavy]

Exterior is coming along nicely. They're using some stone and darker color tones on the front, which is different than most of the crap out there.