Rail or More Roads in Jacksonville's Future?

[Metro Jacksonville]

Rail or More Roads in Jacksonville's Future?



The North Florida TPO wants to know how will you invest in transportation for the future?  Should it be more roads, rail, or a logical mix of both?


Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-aug-rail-or-more-roads-in-jacksonvilles-future

[thelakelander]

The Northern Outer Beltway:

This is one idea that needs to be immediately hit in the head with a shovel and buried six feet under.  What is this region's infatuation with projects like this?  301 already serves as this purpose and four laning it in the distant future would be more than enough to relieve congestion.

[thelakelander]

For those attempting to enlarge the images in the article, it appears our photo host (www.smugmug.com) is currently down right now.  In the meantime you can view the maps full scale at:

North Florida TPO Envision 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan
http://northfloridatpo.com/envision2035/participate/

[Charles Hunter]

Also, the "Envision" site in lakelander's link has another preference poll where you can vote for rail/BRT/roads in different corridors.  Fun.

[thelakelander]

Here is a link:

Roads vs Transit

The corridors listed below won’t be able to handle traffic over the next 20 years. For each one, we’ve identified a road and transit option to solve that problem. We need your help in deciding which is the best fix. For each corridor, please select the Road or Transit Option and click SUBMIT at the bottom to record your choices.

http://northfloridatpo.com/envision2035/roads-vs-transit/

[zoo]

The MPO/NFTPO has never listened to the community. It is run by suburbanites for suburbanites, and fails to consider major paradigm shifts and environmental impact in its plans, even though in theory it is restricted by growth management policy. The whole group should be replaced.

[lindab]

I have always objected to these simple minded polls taken by consultants to the TPO or JTA.
They want citizens to vote on partially made decisions with very little other information about the conditions each proposal will affect such as costs, impacts to businesses, residences, noise, impacts to environment and historic structures.

Every time I go to these meetings, I am told over and over, "No we don't want to hear about your suggestions just vote on our proposal as stated. Changes to XYZ Street: Widen or Rail? "  Well, I say to them "Phooey!"

[tufsu1]

Lindab....

The TPO and its consultants are very interested in what you have to say and they will come to the meetings with lots of information.....note that these meetings are more like open houses where you can drop in and talk one-on-one and then provide your comments/suggestions.

Now I do agree that the online poll and game have been somewhat simplistic, but they are meant to get an over-arching feel for what people in this region are looking for....that said, it is real difficult to tell the elected officials (that make up the TPO Board) that the community really wants transit (or something else) when less than 100 people play the online games and fewer show up at public meetings.

Now is the time to let your voice be heard.

[tufsu1]

The MPO/NFTPO has never listened to the community. It is run by suburbanites for suburbanites, and fails to consider major paradigm shifts and environmental impact in its plans, even though in theory it is restricted by growth management policy. The whole group should be replaced.

The NFTPO Board is comprised of local government elected officials....many of whom are suburbanites who represent suburbanites (they are part of the community too)....but if you don't like what the elected officials are doing, don't vote for them!

[aubureck]

While I am not overly familiar with the staff and members of the Committees comprised by the NFTPO.  I did spend some time working for 3 other TPO's in northwest Florida.  At that time we were also in the process of updating our LRTP and the staff and the majority of the committees were filled with people who deeply cared about where the community was going and how to improve it in the long run.

I wholeheartedly disagree that they are a group who do not care to listen to the community.

[Jason]

Honestly, I don't see the list of proposed transit and road projects in a negative light.  The only one I have a problem with is the outer beltway/9B and the Nocatee Parkway extension.  The beltway needs to be scrapped and the Nocatee extension revised.  The remainder of the proposed roads, extensions, and widening proposals really look like they are in line with the growth and will likely be needed.

The transit map looks very similar to the routes and modes discussed and proposed by many here on MetroJax.  It looks like they are accepting our advise and making moves in the right direction.

BRT (as originally proposed) is all but squashed, streetcar routes make sence, skyway extensions are still on the table, commuter rail is seemingly in the works, and what is left of BRT is on busy suburban corridors where it makes sence.  Furthermore, all lines lead to JTC.

[Captain Zissou]

I agree with most of the results in the survey.  I would rather see a rail spur go out to the beach on JTB than BRT.  Anything that will reduce the number of busways is better.  Once the port activity picks up, dedicated truck lanes will shoot up the list of priorities. 

[JeffreyS]

I like that they are looking at existing rail lines first. It would be great to have one go to the beach at some point.

[Dog Walker]

Had a good friend who worked for FDOT for years.  He said that FDOT's vision of a mixed transit system was half asphalt and half concrete.  I've not seen anything yet that would make him change that opinion.

Rule number one of traffic problems:  You cannot build your way out of congestion.

Beltways are for developers, not for citizens.

[Ocklawaha]

True Dog Walker, and remember folks "Freeways" ARE NOT FREE!

What's with the survey that asks if you want Rail/BRT or widen the road? Sounds like a set up for talking rail while the roadway is being laid down, then marking it for BRT on the final day of road work... After All... "BRT, It's just like rail only cheaper!"

adj. cheap·er, cheap·est
1.
a. Relatively low in cost; inexpensive or comparatively inexpensive.
b. Charging low prices: a cheap restaurant.
2.
a. Obtainable at a low rate of interest. Used especially of money.
b. Devalued, as in buying power: cheap dollars.
3. Achieved with little effort: a cheap victory; cheap laughs.
4. Of or considered of small value: in wartime, when life was cheap.
5. Of poor quality; inferior: a cheap toy.
6. Worthy of no respect; vulgar or contemptible: a cheap gangster.
7. Stingy; miserly.
adv. cheaper, cheapest
Inexpensively: got the new car cheap.
Idioms:
cheap at twice the price
Extremely inexpensive.
on the cheap
By inexpensive means; cheaply: traveled to Europe on the cheap

Considering that it is the BRT camp that is touting the words "CHEAPER! CHEAPER! CHEAPER!" we must really be in for a treat. Rapid Transit without a track! or without a Tram! or without electricity! A system to match every metropolitan area, Manhattan = Subways, Portland = LRT, Little Rock = Streetcars, Dayton = trolley buses, Chicago = EL, San Francisco = ferry's, Jacksonville... hello Jacksonville? Come in Jacksonville? J A C K S O N V I L L E !!


OCKLAWAHA