John Mica Delays Action to Save the Red Snapper Population off Florida Coasts

[FayeforCure]

Most of us don't know much about the red snapper, but to have a Florida Representative engage in the politics of denialism in the face of overwheming evidence is enormously irresponsible. This kind of pandering to isolated interest groups is so destructive to our environment!

Red Snapper Medics Studying The Crash
The Green Man

There’s a kind of blindness humans have, when it comes to the endangered species of the sea. We don’t live underwater, and so most of us don’t have much of an idea of what ocean life looks like now, or what it once looked like. Not knowing the difference, and not having any way to see things for ourselves, it can be easy to accept hearsay about the sea at face value.

That’s what Congressman John Mica has done when it comes to the red snapper. The red snapper is not a sunburned jazz musician, or an angry Republican. It’s a fish. In the Gulf of Mexico and the South Atlantic, it’s a fish that’s in danger of extinction if fishing practices aren’t changed. That’s not just a matter of opinion. It’s an assessment based on consistent scientific observations.

The following chart for example, is based on a long-term series of surveys and data assessments by the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration. It shows the scientific estimate of the the biomass of red snapper in the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico.



Representative John Mica responds to this kind of scientific data with second-hand anecdotal information. “The fishermen I’ve talked with, both sport and commercial, say… there are strong runs of snapper and grouper,” he says. Of course, the fishermen John Mica has talked to are members of a political group that is seeking to block fishing regulations designed to protect the red snapper. They have a bias, the kind of bias that large-scale, long-term scientific observations are designed to avoid.

It’s not just one source of research that indicates current fishing practices are threatening to red snapper. Governmental surveys take place in the larger context of studies by other scientists, like Dr. William Patterson, Dr. James Cowan, Dr. Ronald Phelps, and more scientists, and more scientists. A lack of research on the red snapper is not the problem. A lack of action is.

Yet, John Mica, and his constituency of fishing interests, doesn’t like the result of the scientific research that exists, so they’re asking for action on the ecological crisis of the red snapper be halted, until a new study can be conducted - this one not by fisheries scientists, but by the Department of Commerce. That’s why Congressman Mica has introduced a bill, H.R. 3307, that would interfere with current fisheries law, the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. Mica’s bill would prohibit limitations under Magnuson-Stevens until the completion Department of Commerce study.

What you see in the chart above is, in plain terms, a crash. When paramedics come upon a car crash, they don’t wait for additional medical studies of the conditions of the people in the car before acting. They can see the trauma quite plainly, and they apply emergency medicine on the spot to prevent death and enable the next step in more targeted care.

The condition of the red snapper in both the South Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico is like the condition of people who have been in a serious car crash. More study on red snapper populations would be great. Delaying action to rescue the red snapper from extinction until additional research is completed would be insane.

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2009/07/25/red-snapper-medics-studying-the-crash/

For most of you this is a fringe issue, I know, but it is so indicative of the utter and complete disregard of scientific opinion showing irrefutable catastrophy in the face of entrenched business interests.

[FayeforCure]

Will we empty the oceans?

By Eoin O'Carroll | 07.06.09
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Last week, Greenpeace released its semiannual seafood sustainability scorecard, which ranks US supermarket chains based on the impacts their practices have on marine life and how well they communicate these practices to the shopper.

The grades are dispiriting. While the environmental advocacy group noted progress among some stores, the top scorer, Wegmans, received only 6 out of 10. Even though the East Coast chain has worked with scientists and conservationists to develop seafood sourcing standards and has removed from its stores a number of species because of sustainability concerns, Greenpeace found that Wegmans continues to sell 15 species â€" including grouper, monkfish, and Atlantic salmon â€" that appear on Greenpeace’s Red List of fish that are unavailable from sustainable sources.

Other stores fared much worse on Greenpeace’s report card. The national chain Trader Joe’s â€" which generally has a good reputation among greens â€" scored near the bottom, prompting Greenpeace to attack them in a site called Traitor Joe.

You can check how your local supermarkets have performed on Greenpeace’s ranking here.

This is about more than just a few endangered species. After a half century of industrial fishing, a quarter of the world’s fish stocks are overfished, and another half are fished to full capacity. One study found that, if current trends continue, the world will completely run out of seafood in 30 years.

It wasn’t always like this. Here’s how the Monitor’s series on overfishing last year kicked off:

Early European explorers to the Americas encountered an astounding abundance of marine life. White beluga whales, now limited to the arctic, swam as far south as Boston Bay. Cod off Newfoundland were so plentiful that fishermen could catch them with nothing more than a weighted basket lowered into the water. As late as the mid-19th century, river herring ran so thick in the eastern United States that wading across certain waterways meant treading on fish. And everywhere sharks were so numerous that, after hauling in their catches, fishers often found them stripped to the bone.

So how did we get from that world, where the oceans teemed with marine life, to the growing aquatic wasteland we see today? The answer: One catch at a time.

Here’s where we’re supposed to dust off the hoary metaphor about boiling a frog. You know the one: Drop a frog in boiling water, and it jumps out immediately. But if you place it in cold water that you heat gradually, the frog won’t perceive the danger and will make no attempt to escape as it is gradually boiled to death.

This, of course, is utter nonsense. Dropping a frog in boiling water will almost certainly kill it, and if you heat the water slowly, the frog will jump out once the temperature gets uncomfortable. Sorry, but amphibians aren’t that stupid.

Can the same be said for humans? As Nicholas Kristof pointed out in his New York Times column last week, we modern Homo sapiens are pretty much physically identical to our hunting and gathering forebears who lived some 200,000 years ago. As a result, our minds are highly attuned to Pleistocene-style threats, the saber-toothed cat lurking in the grass, the rival eying your mate, the guy from the neighboring tribe with the big stick. When we perceive these kinds of threats â€" manifested today in the form of images of militants abroad or “moral values” issues at home, our bodies instinctively gear up into fight-or-flight mode

Not so much for those creeping, incremental threats like overfishing. Even though resource depletion can wipe out a species population just as surely as a terrorist attack, the threat isn’t visceral. Unless you have a very vivid imagination, contemplating lifeless oceans won’t make your eyes widen or your pulse quicken. You’re just not built that way.

But, unlike most other animals, we humans have the capacity to override our evolutionary programming and think far into the future. That’s why we save for retirement, get regular exercise, and floss. Doing these things are much harder than living for the moment, but important for our long-term viability.

The alternative is to bury our heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away, an act that â€" while we’re puncturing bogus animal metaphors â€" even ostriches don’t do. Can we be smarter than ostriches?

==

http://features.csmonitor.com/environment/2009/07/06/will-we-empty-the-oceans/

Short-sighted congressmen who should be working to safe-guard our future, are just pandering to special interest groups,  putting our future at risk, and showing a complete lack of REAL leadership.

[Ocklawaha]

Save Florida Sports, EAT A SNAPPER!


I know I've done my part to save "The Red Snapper," she used to live with me in Southern California.

So if the shrimp boats go out from Mayport, Fernandina and St. Augustine, and put their nets in the water we'll have to post signs telling the Snapper's to go elsewhere? Could do something stupid like make it illegal to have one in your possession. We did that with Birds of Prey and people around the country were arrested for making feathered dream catchers out of ROAD KILL bird feathers. "Protected, you understand, those damn road kill feathers are strictly off limits..." Huh?

This is a damn slippery slope, do we stop the fishing industry because a dumb Red Snapper got into the nets? They probably catch a few thousand per day. But no, lets just arrest the weekend fisherman that had the bad fortune to catch one at the beach or out on the sports boat. It's the evil meat, fish and fowl folks we're after, after locking up half the 16 year olds in the country for smoking a bit of boo, this will REALLY help our prisons create more hardened prisoners.

"What are you in for?"

"Grand theft auto and two Red Snappers..."

"They sent you here over a stolen car?"

"Hell no, that was nothing, they nailed me for eating the sacred fish."

When I stop laughing I think I'll go fishing! Maybe Faye and John would like to come along? This is going to be one hell of a deep sea journey.

OCKLAWAHA

[Jason]

I don't see where further limiting the amount of snapper caught would be all that bad.  Limiting the supply will drive up the prices and hopefully offset the loss of quantity.

Couldn't the fisherman, theoretically, make about the same money on less fish if they scored more at he market per pound?  Plus there would be less time on the water because they have less to catch.  Now that I think about it, the downside to higher prices for fish is that many people will likely buy less.  I guess that's the "catch" 22. 

[jaxnative]

Doesn't work that way.  All it will do is increase foreign purchases of seafood and drive another industry out of business to appease some extremists with a messiah complex.  The snapper season has already been cut to the bare minimum possible for the commercial fishermen to survive.  The recent reports have  shown increasing stocks of snapper because of one main reason:  more bottom structure.  The majority of the gulf bottom is sand with limited natural structure.  More and more artificial structure has been laid down along with an increase of oil producing structure which has had a very beneficial effect on the snapper numbers.  John Mica did the right thing(as he normally does) by looking at data instead of emotional talking points.

[FayeforCure]

The recent reports have  shown increasing stocks of snapper because of one main reason:  more bottom structure. 

Oh really? Where are those reports from? The fishermen themselves? Don't you see a conflict of interest there?

John Mica did the right thing(as he normally does) by looking at data instead of emotional talking points.

Yeah sure, you mean the emotional talking points of the fishermen? Maybe we should listen to the emotional talking points of our children and grandchildren who want to see the red snapper survive.........

Even Mica admits not to have any data to base his decision on:

Congress Hears Arguments to Stop Moratorium on Red Snapper Fishing off Southeast Coast

Jim Burress (2009-07-27)

null
ATLANTA, GA (WABE) - In March, federal fisheries managers approved a six-month moratorium on red snapper fishing from coastal North Carolina down to Florida. A final decision is pending from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA.

But U-S Representative John Mica of Florida has put before Congress a moratorium on the moratorium. He says the issue needs more study:

"If it isn't necessary, then we don't enforce the ban. If it is necessary, go forward with the ban. It's that simple."

Debbie Salamone of the Pew Trust says the fish doesn't have more time:

"This species could be facing commercial extinction, which means it's not worth fishing for any longer."

Some fisherman call environmentalists' reports flawed and outdated. However, NOAA's regional administrator has said size and bag limits are not keeping the Red Snapper at federally-mandated levels.

Jim Burress, WABE News.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wabe/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1534595/Atlanta/Congress.Hears.Arguments.to.Stop.Moratorium.on.Red.Snapper.Fishing.off.Southeast.Coast

[Captain Zissou]

No disrespect, but this thread is making me hungry.  On Shark Week last night they said Hog Snapper was one of the most flavorful fish around.

[jaxnative]

It is darn good but it still doesn't beat a well cooked fillet of grouper IMHO.

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, lets all not forget that just a couple of decades ago we went through the same BS with Gators... "The last dinosaurs," "A legacy for our children", "A child without Gatorland..." It really got pretty stupid. Well we saved the damn things and how many of those "children" have been consumed by them? How many parents? Since hunting became limited but legal again what is the death toll for our benevolence? Can our kids still safely swim at Bluff Landing? Lake Jessup? Juniper Springs Run? NOT! Everyone wave to the big smiling croc, doesn't it make you feel warm and fuzzy?

Anyone else remember the prehistoric fish that was gone for 10 Billion years then showed up in a net?  Yeah, not only extinct but a REAL LIVE Triassic wonder. BULL SHIT!

Faye, I respect your views on Transportation and several rail issues, but this one is such a stretch that it comes across as a school yard tattle tale because Johnny got the ball. Sort of like those fools that chase Japanese fishing vessels and French warships around the Pacific. RAM THE Bastards and full speed ahead.

As a friend, I'm afraid posts like this in a Republican City, will get you a label that may make you unelectable. Anyone else agree? Got any good Snapper recipe's?



OCKLAWAHA

[jaxnative]

Sort of like those fools that chase Japanese fishing vessels

That is amazing.  I've just got to wonder where those idiots get the funding to equip and operate their vessels.  I stop and watch these people sometimes when I'm channel surfing out of some kind of morbid curiosity as they violate maritime law and put people's lives in danger.  The Animal Planet channel should be ashamed.

[FayeforCure]

Yeah, lets all not forget that just a couple of decades ago we went through the same BS with Gators... "The last dinosaurs," "A legacy for our children", "A child without Gatorland..." It really got pretty stupid. Well we saved the damn things and how many of those "children" have been consumed by them? How many parents? Since hunting became limited but legal again what is the death toll for our benevolence? Can our kids still safely swim at Bluff Landing? Lake Jessup? Juniper Springs Run? NOT! Everyone wave to the big smiling croc, doesn't it make you feel warm and fuzzy?

Anyone else remember the prehistoric fish that was gone for 10 Billion years then showed up in a net?  Yeah, not only extinct but a REAL LIVE Triassic wonder. BULL SHIT!

Faye, I respect your views on Transportation and several rail issues, but this one is such a stretch that it comes across as a school yard tattle tale because Johnny got the ball. Sort of like those fools that chase Japanese fishing vessels and French warships around the Pacific. RAM THE Bastards and full speed ahead.

As a friend, I'm afraid posts like this in a Republican City, will get you a label that may make you unelectable. Anyone else agree? Got any good Snapper recipe's?



OCKLAWAHA

Forget the Republican city crap:

Registered Voters as of 08/04/2009  Republican: 193,524   Democrat: 241,725   Other: 94,778   Total: 530,027

http://www.duvalelections.com/

McCain 50%
Obama 49%

Besides, environmental issues are extremely important to Republicans too. Healthcare and environmental issues are the only truly bi-partisan issues.

Sorry to see your views are so outdated. I respect your views on rail, but even a 6 year old can interpret the snapper graph, and have a more appropriate and responsible response.

Species extinction is not a laughing matter,........neither is the nilly willy attitude about destroying our environment. I am sure the younger generations will be smarter than that, after the mess-up the "boomers" have made of things.

[FayeforCure]

And sorry to burst "you all"'s bubble on Mica, but he too believes in bans,........he's jsut trying to delay the necessary ban despite sufficient and overwhelming scientific evidence a ban is necessary vs random anecdotal hear-say:

But U-S Representative John Mica of Florida has put before Congress a moratorium on the moratorium. He says the issue needs more study:

"If it isn't necessary, then we don't enforce the ban. If it is necessary, go forward with the ban. It's that simple."

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wabe/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1534595/Atlanta/Congress.Hears.Arguments.to.Stop.Moratorium.on.Red.Snapper.Fishing.off.Southeast.Coast

[Ocklawaha]

Forget the Republican city crap:

Registered Voters as of 08/04/2009  Republican: 193,524   Democrat: 241,725   Other: 94,778   Total: 530,027

http://www.duvalelections.com/

McCain 50%
Obama 49%

Besides, environmental issues are extremely important to Republicans too. Healthcare and environmental issues are the only truly bi-partisan issues.

Sorry to see your views are so outdated. I respect your views on rail, but even a 6 year old can interpret the snapper graph, and have a more appropriate and responsible response.

Species extinction is not a laughing matter,........neither is the nilly willy attitude about destroying our environment. I am sure the younger generations will be smarter than that, after the mess-up the "boomers" have made of things.

It's a fish Faye... A damn stupid (but great tasting) fish! BTW, I don't miss the sabretooth tigers, pterodactyls, or 50' crocodiles either... ROFL... Learn to salute your own generation, life's to short to take it so seriously, Gee, now I'm on par with 6 year olds? Guess my goal of never growing up is reachable, turn on - tune in - drop out! LOL

OCKLAWAHA

[BridgeTroll]

after the mess-up the "boomers" have made of things.

Overfishing, pollution, etc, were occuring loooooong before the "boomers".  If anything... those evil boomers were the first to bring environmentalism into the public conciousness.  They were the first to actually "do something" about the various problems you speak of.

Why is everyone who disagrees with the depth of your convictions wrong or childish Faye?  We all dont see the same calamity in everyday life as you... but this does not make one "childish".

[Captain Zissou]

^Good point BT.  Now we need the Chinese to have a hippy boomer generation.  Despite however successful we may be at reducing our carbon footprint, China will make that irrelevant by the rate of their industrial expansion.  Until they get on board, most of what we do won't matter.  I'm not excusing us from doing our part, just making a point.

On a related note (you might want to look into this, Faye), we could drastically reduce atmospheric pollution by switching to hamburgers made from kangaroos.  They produce a fraction of the amount of methane compared to cows.  They also go great with snapper.