Before Modern Police Forces. America in 1922.

[gmpalmer]

the only time I have ever called the police is to take care of matters that I am not legally able to act in -- for instance, getting rid of the crack house or intervening when two neighbors are loudly and physically fighting.  were it not for laws preventing me (and our other neighbors) from doing so, we'd just take care of it ourselves.  catch-22, nez paws?

[Dog Walker]

Stephen, you make a good point about there being too many laws. That's another discussion, but I would guarantee that the "old", vigilante way would be much worse.  I am a very good example.

Let's say you set up your rock band in the street in front of my house at three am.  I go out and say, "Hey, fellows would you knock it off we are trying to sleep", but you keep blasting away.  Now I have two choices.  I can spray you with gasoline and light it or I can call the cops to enforce the ridiculous laws against disturbing the peace and noise at night.

Now my preference in this situation is the gasoline spray, but what's yours?

[jaxnative]

I think neighborhood watch programs are great.  Nothing wrong with neighbors looking out for each other and their property.  

Concerning the law enforcement discussion, we cannot delude ourselves in looking back at what some believe to be the "good ole days".  Using the period mentioned, the 1920's and before, can we even compare the societal, cultural, and moral restraints that existed in those times to the present?  The 35 year old loser would have had second thoughts since the family would have taken revenge, the 17 year old would have been terrified at the thought of getting pregnant in those days, animals were still considered to have been animals, there were very few cars, homeless guys weren't considered victims and either starved or were sent to work camps,  library workers or citizens would have forceably thrown the bum out without worrying about impending legal action, etc., etc., etc.  For civil peace and behaviour laws and rules must exist.  Force or the threat of force must exist in one way or the other.  Law enforcement systems have developed in response to the changes in the above mentioned restraints not on their own, sole volition.

[Ocklawaha]

maybe we can argue that the civil war actually began in 1802?

Im not going to argue something as insane as the war beginning decades beforehand based on mounting negative public opinion, Ock.

While the hostilities were there for a while, The War had a clear beginning.

Ok back to the original subject.

Hey my zany friend, YOUR the one who suggested we argue that the war started in 1802. I was merely giving someone the ammunition to fire a few salvos, whilst I sit back with a shot of Southern Comfort and relax. Your completely ignoring the Southrons Credo: "Thou shalt never pass up an opportunity to piss off a Yankee..."

OCKLAWAHA
DEO VINDICE Y'ALL

[BridgeTroll]

were it not for laws preventing me (and our other neighbors) from doing so, we'd just take care of it ourselves.  catch-22, nez paws?

Why are there laws to prevent you from taking care of it yourself?  There must be a reason... what could it be?

[Sportmotor]

Why are there laws to prevent you from taking care of it yourself?  There must be a reason... what could it be?

Im going to say garden gnomes are to blame

[BridgeTroll]

Yes.  Because there is accountability... there is review... there is a process for making the system better by learning from mistakes.  So modern policing is vastly better than vigilante justice.

[Dog Walker]

With MY vigilante justice there would be a lot more shot in two months than just two people.  Told you I was a good example of why "local" or "vigilante" justice would, in your opinion, be worse than our current police enforcement.

And, I don't consider running from the police with a stolen gun in your hand "hanky-panky."

[BridgeTroll]

And there is also corruption and cover your assing, and having your buddies stick up for you.

Name something that doesnt.  It does not make the institution bad... it means like with anything there are bad cops.  We have built a system to weed them out.  It is not perfect but most folks understand that.

[Dog Walker]

Running away with a gun in your hand makes you a danger to the community, legal or not.  My bar for capital punishment is undoubtedly lower than yours.  Take armed robbers, for instance......

[BridgeTroll]

Meet DOG... the bounty hunter.

[macbeth25]

I admit I just noticed the post regarding someone running from the police while holding a weapon.  You don't want to be holding a weapon or anything which looks like it might be a weapon around police and running from them is usually not the wisest of actions.  If you were an officer faced by someone holding a weapon, would you wait until that person had shot you before you acted -- I doubt it. 
Police are trained to respond to threats -- sometimes they respond when a threat doesn't really exist but they had no idea there was no threat until later -- after someone has been wounded or even killed.
There have been far too many times when officers have been killed on a "simple" traffic stop.  This is one of the reasons video cameras are used by police.  It might provide the information needed to catch a killer.
What if the person running from police with a weapon were headed towards your house -- wouldn't you want them stopped before they had a chance to hurt you or your family? 
I know what my answer would be.
Regarding the concept of not shooting to kill â€" I’ve often heard that you don’t aim a weapon at anyone or anything you don’t intend to kill.  I think police are trained to shoot at a central mass, rather than an arm or hand. 
Some of the old gunfighters might have been able to do it but if I carried a weapon for self defense I’d want to make sure my attacker was dead â€" I wouldn’t be bothered with trying to disarm them with a shot to the hand or something.  A hand is much too hard to hit.
You may have heard of Audie Murphy, not only an excellent actor, but one of the most decorated men in American military history.  I have a story about him â€" which may or may not be true â€" which I will tell if anyone wants to hear it.  To Hell and Back is one of the movies about him which is really worth watching. 

 

[Dog Walker]

armed robbers didnt last long in the old days.

They were hunted for a bounty. and brought to a court of law.

Read the old wanted posters!  They said wanted dead or alive.  They were hunted for a bounty and brought to the undertaker slung over the back of your horse, not to a court of law unless you surrendered yourself to the sheriff.

[Dog Walker]

Don't the British have or did have a system where a private citizen could bring a criminal prosecution to the courts?  I seem to remember reading that somewhere.  So it wouldn't be the State vs. Jones, but could be Smith vs Jones in a criminal case.  Don't know if that system still exists.

In such a circumstance, if the State Attorney's office wouldn't prosecute a private citizen could.  Of course the British also have a loser pays all the legal fees system too.

I would imagine that the private bounties would have been offered by the private enforcement agencies like Pinkerton's or by the shipping companies that were getting robbed like Wells Fargo.

[macbeth25]

I just can't resist the temptation because it seems so appropriate here.  Imagine that you were on the boat described in this signature:

In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

How long do you think it would take  before vigilante justice solved the problem?  I certainly wouldn't want someone in my boat who was boring any holes in it.