The Rest of the State attends Federal Rail Rollout Meet, But Not Jacksonville!

[thelakelander]

I wonder how much would it cost to upgrade the existing rail line between Tampa & Orlando to 110mph? Also, why not run HSR and commuter services on the same corridor?  In other words, express trains with limited stops and others that take the same route but make stops in additional communities like Brandon, Plant City, Auburndale, Four Corners/Haines City, Lake Buena Vista, etc.

Florida makes pitch for federal money for high-speed train

By Dan Tracy | Sentinel Staff Writer
4:30 PM EDT, May 21, 2009

It was billed as a workshop to answer questions about the Obama administration's plans to build a high-speed rail network across the country.

But Florida officials Thursday turned it into a pitch for up to $2 billion in federal money to pay for a 90-mile link between Orlando International Airport and Tampa with a train capable of going at least 110 mph.

"Send us the money, and we'll start digging," Lee Chira, chairman of the Florida High Speed Authority, told federal transit managers gathered at a hotel near OIA.

After the session, Karen Rae, a deputy administrator with the Federal Rail Administration, said she liked what Florida offers, but she stopped short of an endorsement.

"Clearly, I see Florida having a lot potential. But we'll wait until we see all the applications," she said.

Rae was on the second leg of a seven-stop tour of states and regions seeking money for possible high-speed rail projects.

Ten areas have been declared eligible by the government. Besides Florida, other likely applicants include California, North Carolina, the Pacific Northwest and Pennsylvania.

As much as $8 billion is up for grabs as part of the nearly $800 billion economic stimulus package approved earlier this year by the Congress. Rae said the Obama administration may start awarding grants by the end of the year.

The idea is to create a series of fast trains that can relieve congested highways and airports across the nation, as well as put people to work.

Rae compared it with the massive construction of the interstate highway system started in the 1950s by President Eisenhower.

Stephanie Kopelousos, secretary of the Florida Department of Transportation, said the Tampa- Orlando corridor â€" which would include stops in Lakeland and the Orange County Convention Center â€" would lead to at least 25,000 jobs.

It would be built largely in the median of Interstate 4, which bisects the state, connecting Daytona with Orlando and Tampa.

Florida has longed for a train that would run between its major cities since the 1970s. It has seen several efforts fail, most recently in 2003, when former Gov. Jeb Bush successfully led an effort to repeal a constitutional amendment mandating a Miami-Orlando-Tampa route.

Before that try was aborted, the high-speed rail authority had completed several crucial tasks, including conducting an environmental impact study and selected two top bidders to build and operate the train.

That has prompted Chira, a former Orange County commissioner, to say that Florida is the farthest along of any high-speed proposal.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-high-speed-rail-052109,0,7194067.story

[JeffreyS]

So other than our private group Jax missed the 8 billion dollar meetings Wednesday and Friday. Tufsu1 it has got to be tough making excuses for the JTA, Mayor , City Council, MPO, JEDC ect, ect , ect. Seriously our city couldn't possibly sent delegations to two events on the same day or one delegation on two different days out of the question.  My goodness Ock nailed it when he described Jacksonville's evolution into 5 minute Highway pit stop.  Just a place to hold up signs that tell you how far the Mouse is.

[tufsu1]

I wonder how much would it cost to upgrade the existing rail line between Tampa & Orlando to 110mph? Also, why not run HSR and commuter services on the same corridor?  In other words, express trains with limited stops and others that take the same route but make stops in additional communities like Brandon, Plant City, Auburndale, Four Corners/Haines City, Lake Buena Vista, etc.

The answer to that question is more than the new line....there are many crossings that would need to be closed or grade-separated...plus all new alignments in areas like downtown Lakeland where the existing curves make even semi-high speed service impossible.

The study we did about 7 years ago showed that the best we could hope for on the existing line was the typical Amtrak high-speed definition of 79mph....and even that was only in limited places.

That said, I think rail service that can at least be competitive time-wise with autos (meaning it needs to average about 60mph) would be good enough.

[Ocklawaha]

Many curves in those orange groves (what's left of them) can be adjusted, and track can be super elevated (banked) so that a train leans into the curve with a complex transition formula. That plus overpasses and fences, and equipment that is FRA compliant would make a huge difference. Less stops on express service would also change the times. Many of the new HSR trains are tilt-trains meaning they can take these old flat curves much faster then the current Amtrak equipment. All of this would be much quicker to impliment then the I-4 alignment.

According to Doc Dockery, current Amtrak and current planned Florida HSR won't be able to mix AT ALL, as Florida wants NON-COMPLIANT HSR. Buddy go ahead and try this one, it will last until two trains have a (* see note) cornfield meet, then the FRA will come down like thunder on top of us. I-4 is Stupid (encourages sprawl, who lives on I-4?) but NON-COMPLIANT HSR is INSANE!

OCKLAWAHA

(* Cornfield meet: Railroad for a head on collision. So called for an infamous traveling show that would wreck trains as a circus act. One such show with thousands watching had the misfortune of a boiler explosion. Thousand pound pieces of locomotive showerd down on the crowd... Many never went home! This act was held in a cornfield, thus the name)

[thelakelander]

^Why non FRA compliant technology?

I wonder how much would it cost to upgrade the existing rail line between Tampa & Orlando to 110mph? Also, why not run HSR and commuter services on the same corridor?  In other words, express trains with limited stops and others that take the same route but make stops in additional communities like Brandon, Plant City, Auburndale, Four Corners/Haines City, Lake Buena Vista, etc.

The answer to that question is more than the new line....there are many crossings that would need to be closed or grade-separated...plus all new alignments in areas like downtown Lakeland where the existing curves make even semi-high speed service impossible.

The study we did about 7 years ago showed that the best we could hope for on the existing line was the typical Amtrak high-speed definition of 79mph....and even that was only in limited places.

That said, I think rail service that can at least be competitive time-wise with autos (meaning it needs to average about 60mph) would be good enough.

If a brand new line is built in the middle of I-4, what would stop it from offering both express and local service?

[Lunican]

http://www.youtube.com/v/Tpl4Cr3-Tm0

[JeffreyS]

So you are saying this event did not have legos or link-n-logs at all???  All they brought to the table was 8 billion dollars???
I bet all the other Mayors and city officials from central and south Florida are pretty steamed. 
All along we have been crying for some attention from the Mayor and all we needed where some legos or a Thomas the train set and we could have gotten Peyton and the Governor too.  Who would have thunk it.

[JeffreyS]

Hillsborough panel backs high-speed rail from Tampa
By RICH SHOPES

rshopes@tampatrib.com

Published: May 19, 2009
TAMPA - Hillsborough County's Transportation Task Force is backing a high-speed rail plan linking Tampa and Orlando.

The task force approved a motion Monday to formally endorse the project, one of several across the nation that emerged after the federal government proposed that $8 billion in stimulus funds go toward high-speed rail.

The Federal Railroad Administration is holding workshops across the country to gauge support for high-speed rail projects.

The motion by task force members comes as the railroad administration is set to meet Thursday in Orlando to consider Florida's plan to connect Tampa, Orlando, Miami and Jacksonville.

The first leg of that plan, Tampa to Orlando, would cost about $2 billion.

Ray Chiaramonte, executive director of the county's Metropolitan Planning Organization, said the Tampa-Orlando leg is farther along than others across the nation and could begin in 18 to 24 months if funding is in place. About a dozen other states are floating their own proposals.

"We have an advantage for a short period of time over the other proposals with the work that has already been accomplished," he said.

In addition, Chiaramonte said the system could complement a future light-rail program in the Tampa area.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/may/19/na-hillsborough-panel-backs-high-speed-rail-from-t/news-metro/

[JeffreyS]

OK Jax delegation
looks like Seattle and California are next but Houston on May 29th should be doable.
http://www.bytrain.org/pdf/fra_hispeed_intercity_pass_rail_wkshops.pdf

[Ocklawaha]

Dear Mayor Peyton, Adam Hollingsworth and JTA

ATTEND the HSR roll out in Houston. This will be for the Gulf Coast Corridor. Eventually this line will extend from San Antoino - Houston - New Orleans - Birmingham - Atlanta, It will have a dead end stub New Orleans to Mobile.

Mobile is not that far from Pensacola. It's not a stretch that if we petitioned for a new short route from Mobile to Pensacola, then beyond to Tallahassee and terminate in Jacksonville. Thus like Atlanta we would anchor two of the HSR routes proposed in the South. We apply for FLDOT to bend the Florida HSR route from Gainesville to Lake City into Jacksonville, and we would anchor all three southern projects. More then ANY other American City, including Chicago.

We won't get a push without a strong PULL. Go for it JTA! COJ!

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

Could we build an HSR from Atlanta to Jax and offer seats at what airlines do now? Airtran is $59 with 3 weeks notice. Can we pay for it somehow?

[Lunican]

Airtran lost $274 million last year.

[fsujax]

Hey at least someone did stand up at the Reality Check meeting and ask a question in front of hundreds of people about rail transit and how it relates to TOD......geez I wonder who that could have been?

[thelakelander]

What about if I live in Macon or Valdosta and I want to get to Atlanta or Jacksonville?   Will AirTran get me to either destination?  With rail, the stops along a route can be just as important as the end points. 

[mtraininjax]

Airtran lost $274 million last year.

Did they get a 1 BILLION dollar handout last year? And have they had subsidies every year from the Congress? Sure they had the 9/11 help, but they paid it back, and they are still flying and finding ways to grow their revenue.  The 274 million loss was mostly due to fuel prices rising and they lost 450 million due to fuel. Did Amtrak see the same increase?

Amtrak should be sold off, make the responsible for their own business plan. They are no better than Government Motors. We will repeat the same error there with them.