What do they have in common?

[CrysG]

How about quality of life?  Is the two years' difference that significant?

Personally I like to have 2 extra years but I'll talk about the quality of life. The 2008 Quality of Life Index released by International Living defined quality of life in countries based on cost of living, leisure, culture, economy, environment, freedom, health, infrastructure, risk, safety, and climate. Overall total scores ranked France on top.

[Doctor_K]

No they won't.  They're going to die because they will choose to NOT go and get looked at.  If you go to an emergency room, they *have* to treat you, regardless of your ability to pay or insurance.  And the average wait in an ER here is still way less than Canada and a lot of EU countries.

I don't buy your argument.

Further, I know exactly where my raise went.  It came to me.  My company ate more of the increase in healthcare than it passed on to us.  It's in the financial report that they disclose on a regular basis.

Not all companies are like you picture.

EDIT:  Under universal healthcare, because my company is going to be forced to pay so much more for my State-mandated health insurance, I might not even get a raise because so much more of the company's revenue will be shunted into FedCare.  One more reason I like the way it is now!  I like my raises and bonuses.

And what exactly is 'underinsured?'  Because I have the 'bare-bones' health pacakge as my coverage, am I considered 'underinsured' compared to my co-worker who has the Premium package?

[CrysG]

I'm glad for you, you can get coverage and you can afford to pay for it. At any given moment, the United States Census shows, 47 million people are uninsured. Some 25 million more are underinsured, meaning their benefits aren't sufficient to meet their needs, according to a recent study by the Commonwealth Fund, a health care policy foundation in New York City. Combine those two groups and the total suggests that almost one fourth of Americans don't have adequate health benefits. And of those people 18,000 will die every year due to lack of insurance.

Do you NEED the Premium package? Then you aren't in the underinsured. 

Under universal healthcare, because my company is going to be forced to pay so much more for my State-mandated health insurance, I might not even get a raise because so much more of the company's revenue will be shunted into FedCare.  One more reason I like the way it is now!  I like my raises and bonuses.

In 2006, U.S. spending averaged $6,714 per person. The average resident of France spent $3,450. This year, U.S. spending is expected to near $8,000 per person, while French officials estimate spending there will come in below $5,000. Is your raise and bonus going to be $3264? If not then your raise and bonus will offset what your company-provided health insurance increased.

[Doctor_K]

Because it IS FREE. You wont pay taxes AND for healthcare coverage.

The average resident of France spent $3,450.

So it's indeed not free.

[CrysG]

No they won't.  They're going to die because they will choose to NOT go and get looked at.  If you go to an emergency room, they *have* to treat you, regardless of your ability to pay or insurance.

And what do you think happens when they do go? The ER says no harm no foul? They charge the person who goes. About half of all personal bankruptcies in the United States are due to medical bills. Several studiesâ€"including two published by Harvard Medical School and the Health Affairs journalâ€"put the number of bankruptcies due to medical causes at approximately 50 percent.

Having no health insurance also often means that people will postpone necessary care and forego preventive care - such as childhood immunizations and routine check-ups-completely. Because the uninsured usually have no regular doctor and limited access to prescription medications, they are more likely to be hospitalized for health conditions that could have been avoided.

Delaying care for fear of medical bills is a downward spiral that leads to ultimately higher health care costs for all of us. More than one third of uninsured adults reported they have problems paying their bills, which helps explain why many of the uninsured don't seek out the care they need until the last minute. But when an uninsured person is in crisis and cannot pay, that burden falls upon the insured population, the hospitals, the doctors and the government. And these billions of dollars of "uncompensated care" drive up health insurance premiums for everyone.

[CrysG]

Because it IS FREE. You wont pay taxes AND for healthcare coverage.

The average resident of France spent $3,450.

So it's indeed not free.

France and the United States pay for their health care in different ways. Most U.S. health care spending is private. The government's share â€" what you pay for in taxes for Medicare, Medicaid, military and other government employees â€" is 46 percent. The rest is paid through insurance split between employers and workers, and in out-of-pocket expenses borne by consumers.

In France, national health insurance pushes the government's share of health care spending to 80 percent. Consumers and their employers pay for the rest through supplemental, private insurance and out-of-pocket expenses.

[Doctor_K]

So in a sense, minus the differences in percentages paid by the different players of the game, they're not a whole lot different from each other.  And neither are free.

[CrysG]

So in a sense, minus the differences in percentages paid by the different players of the game, they're not a whole lot different from each other.  And neither are free.

Want a difference? 99% of French citizen have health coverage vs. 87.9% of American's. If you said so yourself and there is no difference why not make the change so everyone can have what you already do?

[Doctor_K]

In the 1990s, Congress and the President essentially forced Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the mortgage industry at large, to extend credit to people who could not conceivably afford to pay the mortgage payments for a house that they wanted to buy. 

This was done under the guise of "extending the American Dream of home ownership to everyone."  In other words, state-mandated equality.  Keep in mind, Fannie and Freddie were Federal institutions.  "The government" said 'anyone can buy a house, we'll cover you!"  And look where the housing market and the larger economy is today because of it.

Where houses individually cost a couple hundred thousand dollars, imagine healthcare costs over the course of one's 'average lifespan' of 77 years.  Conceivably much more than a couple of hundred-thousand dollars, right?  That the government, and thus the taxpayer, will be responsible for.

And we've seen what a great job it's done for the housing market.  All in the name of equality.

I'm not against equality at all.  I am against having a financially-inept government run and dictate the terms of 'equalized' healthcare.

[CrysG]

What does healthcare have to do with the mortgage industry?

You yourself said that cost is about the same and it's been proven that France's medical is better than the American system. Not everyone has the right to a house, but they do have the right to healthcare.

[Doctor_K]

It has to do with the fact that it was the government who mandated that "everyone should be allowed equal access to own their own home."  Because "it was the right thing to do."  I.e., it was a vote-getting measure. 

Just like "everyone should be allowed equal access to the same healthcare." 

I'm not against people being able to get healthcare, as I've said repeatedly before.  Please stop painting me as such and actually read what I'm saying.  I AM against the government mandating it and running it.

To wit:
Why doesn't everyone have the right to a house?  We're in America for goodness' sake.  To not have a house is just indicative of how backwards and broken this country and its 'system' is.  Even people in Slovenia can live in a house, and do it much more cheaply than here!

See how the same argument sounds with just one word changed?

And I did not say the cost was about the same.  I pointed out that neither option is "free," as you'd claimed so insistently to BridgeTroll earlier.

[JeffreyS]

I love the idea of a medicare + Supplemental insurance model.  Before plan B of 06 and prescription cards of 06 the government proved it could provide quality health care. Granted after that medicare has been much less effective.  
I think we should do it but I do not know if we can afford it( in fact I am very skeptical).  I also worry that even if we put a good system in place some president will get his mad on for some nonwhite country and raid the funds of the Government health care system to prosecute his or her little war.
I support giving it a try and yet it scares me.  
On a personal note the business I own provides health care ( we have reduced our contribution in the last year) my two chief competitors do not so I may profit from a national system.

[CrysG]

Why doesn't everyone have the right to a plasma tv?  We're in America for goodness' sake.  To not have a plasma tv is just indicative of how backwards and broken this country and its 'system' is.  Even people in Japan can have a plasma tv and do it much more cheaply than here!

See how the same argument sounds with just one word changed?

So do we all get our free plasma screen tv now?

[Doctor_K]

Exactly my point.

[CrysG]

So according to you we all the the basic right to freedom, health and a plasma tv? Since in your world a plasma is a need and not a want I'm willing to go out and buy you one. On one condition, you and your family go without healthcare of any sort for the next 20 years.

If you think that you, honestly will die without a plasma and can get 17,999 other to die without one then you've got a case.