What do they have in common?

[CrysG]

What do the following countries have in commmon?

1         France
2         Italy
3         San Marino
4         Andorra
5         Malta
6         Singapore
7         Spain
8         Oman
9         Austria
10        Japan
11        Norway
12        Portugal
13        Monaco
14        Greece
15        Iceland


They are the top 15 countries for healthcare according to the WHO AND all of them have some sort of public, free, government provided healthcare. Either tax-funded, single-payer health system or mandatory, employment-based insurance.

So why can they do it, and yet the strongest country in the world can't?

[BridgeTroll]

all of them have some sort of public, free, government provided healthcare.

Of course none of it is free... but the U.S. also has some sort of public, free, government provided healthcare... right?

[CrysG]

Yes, but in those countries it's free for every single citizen regardless of ability to pay.

[BridgeTroll]

Somebody pays for it Crys...

[CrysG]

DUH,

Just like we all pay for the fire department. I'd rather pay for something better than we currently have.
Get over the somebody pays for it mantra.........

[BridgeTroll]

I will if you stop calling it free...

[CrysG]

Because it IS FREE. You wont pay taxes AND for healthcare coverage.

[BridgeTroll]

OK crys... it free. 

[Doctor_K]

Awfully narrowly limited, that 'free' healthcare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France#Public_health

The French healthcare system was ranked first worldwide by the World Health Organization in 1997.[56] Care is generally free for people affected by chronic diseases (Affections de longues durées) such as cancers, AIDS or Cystic Fibrosis. Average life expectancy at birth is 79.73 years.

Further,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France

In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita, a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government.[2]

and

The entire population must pay compulsory health insurance. The insurers are non-profit independent agencies not linked to the State. A premium is deducted from all employees' pay automatically. An employee pays 0.75% of salary to this insurance, and the employer pays an amount to the value of 12.8% of the employee's salary. Those earning less than 6,600 euros per year do not make health insurance payments.

Free looks awfully expensive.  Especially to the employers.  If we adopt the French model, companies will have to pay the equivalent of 12.8% of the employee's salary *on top of* the other percentages they're supposed to pay to Social Security/Medicare/whatever. 

Expect LOTS of layoffs if anything like this makes it into reality on this side of the Pond; that'll cut right in to the bottom line of small AND large businesses.  Thus shrinking the income tax pool, thus increasing the unemployement rate/benefits paid out, thus further straining the (im)balance of already-crisis we have.

Free my arse.  *Somebody's* paying for it.

[CrysG]

The French healthcare system was ranked first worldwide by the World Health Organization in 1997.[56] Care is generally free for people affected by chronic diseases (Affections de longues durées) such as cancers, AIDS or Cystic Fibrosis. Average life expectancy at birth is 79.73 years.

About 99% of French residents are covered by the national health insurance scheme. A baby born in the United States in 2004 will live an average of 77.9 years.

In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita, a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government.[2]

Yes that is I high amount.......To bad US GDP on health care is currently $6,096

The entire population must pay compulsory health insurance. The insurers are non-profit independent agencies not linked to the State. A premium is deducted from all employees' pay automatically. An employee pays 0.75% of salary to this insurance, and the employer pays an amount to the value of 12.8% of the employee's salary. Those earning less than 6,600 euros per year do not make health insurance payments.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the United States have been rising four times faster on average than workers’ earnings since 1999. The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.

[Doctor_K]

And here's something even more interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States#Health_care_payment

Around 84.7% of citizens have some form of health insurance; either through their employer or the employer of their spouse or parent (59.3%), purchased individually (8.9%), or provided by government programs (27.8%; there is some overlap in these figures).[34] All government health care programs have restricted eligibility, and there is no national system of health insurance which guarantees that all citizens have access to health care. Americans without health insurance coverage at some time during 2007 totaled about 15.3% of the population, or 45.7 million people.[34]

More than three-quarters of the population already have healthcare!  Listening to Uni-Care proponents, you'd think the number was so low that *only* the "rich" people had any health coverage whatsoever.  By that rationale, employed = rich.  Interesting indeed.

AND:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States#Health_care_spending

Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 15.2% of GDP, second only to the tiny Marshall Islands among all United Nations member nations.[1] The health share of GDP is expected to continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[19][20]

The Office of the Actuary (OACT) of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services publishes data on total health care spending in the United States, including both historical levels and future projections.[21] In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year.[22]

^"National Health Expenditures, Forecast summary and selected tables", Office of the Actuary in the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 2008. Accessed March 20, 2008.

The U.S. is spending more on healthcare than France.

[Doctor_K]

In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita, a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government.[2]

Precisely!  Thank you for confirming that it is not, indeed, "free."

The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000.

1.  And since many companies pay a share usually equal to what the employee pays into said coverage, that also means that their costs have increased by the same amount.

2.  I bitch and moan every time my premium goes up.  But I'm informed about it, and I have options within my plan - Basic, Standard, Premium, etc.  I'm pretty healthy so I can get by on bare-bones Basic coverage.  But at least I have it.  I will gladly pay the bi-weekly $$ and get the $20 co-pay to my primary physician should I need him.  I'm not rich.  I'm barely middle-class.  But I've got insurance.  I pay for it.  It's great.  I'm not wanting. 

[CrysG]

Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at approximately 15.2% of GDP, second only to the tiny Marshall Islands among all United Nations member nations.[1] The health share of GDP is expected to continue its historical upward trend, reaching 19.5 percent of GDP by 2017.[19][20]

The Office of the Actuary (OACT) of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services publishes data on total health care spending in the United States, including both historical levels and future projections.[21] In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year.[22]

^"National Health Expenditures, Forecast summary and selected tables", Office of the Actuary in the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, 2008. Accessed March 20, 2008.

The U.S. is spending more on healthcare than France.

I think you just proved my point, we are spending twice as much on healthcare to cover only 84.7% of citizens than France and they cover 99% of their citizens.

[Doctor_K]

Fair.  We've proven each others' points:

It's not free.  The employers will have to pay a share, we will have to pay a share - either through direct federal taxation or through additional income taxation.  Probably both.   

Kind of like it is now!

BridgeTroll's mantra of "somebody pays for it" is spot on.

I still fail to see how making it government-run is going to make it better.  The US spends more on healthcare than France.  Your source quoted lifespan as the single barometer against which rankings are made.  How about quality of life?  Is the two years' difference that significant? 

If it was a decade's difference that'd be one thing.  It's not.  I also fail to see how that makes the US so 'behind the times,' as it were.

[CrysG]

1.  And since many companies pay a share usually equal to what the employee pays into said coverage, that also means that their costs have increased by the same amount.

Good now you understand where your raise went. You do have a basic understanding that your company isn't going to eat the rise in cost and they wont turn the cost over to the shareholders right?

2.  I bitch and moan every time my premium goes up.  But I'm informed about it, and I have options within my plan - Basic, Standard, Premium, etc.  I'm pretty healthy so I can get by on bare-bones Basic coverage.  But at least I have it.  I will gladly pay the bi-weekly $$ and get the $20 co-pay to my primary physician should I need him.  I'm not rich.  I'm barely middle-class.  But I've got insurance.  I pay for it.  It's great.  I'm not wanting.

I'm glad for you, you can get coverage and you can afford to pay for it. At any given moment, the United States Census shows, 47 million people are uninsured. Some 25 million more are underinsured, meaning their benefits aren't sufficient to meet their needs, according to a recent study by the Commonwealth Fund, a health care policy foundation in New York City. Combine those two groups and the total suggests that almost one fourth of Americans don't have adequate health benefits. And of those people 18,000 will die every year due to lack of insurance.