Tony Allegretti hired as Market Manager of the Riverside Arts Market

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

I hope Beer & Wine never become part of the "scene" - it's unecessary and, in my opinion would compromise the quality of the Market.  Walking the streets in Jacksonville with an open container seems to have become such an ubiquitous lowest common denominator part of the "culture", to our own detriment.  You'd NEVER imagine seeing anyone in Portland's Saturday Market walking around with a beer or wine.  There's a time and place for everything, and this isn't it re: beer/wine.

Let's let this evolve to a great community event, focused on substance, and welcoming for kids/families, rather than turning it into another form of a "street party".  You've got the first Wednesday evening of every month downtown for that - as well as the various monster truck events and football games.

A: Wouldn't you rather be able to compare Jacksonville to Seattle, rather than Portland?

Wouldn't that be nice, to be a real tier-1 city?

and

B: What's with all this silly ideology where you have to protect people from themselves? WTF? If you don't like beer, then don't buy any. It's that simple. But if other people do, then why the heck would it bother you? And why would you want to prevent multiple other people from getting what they want, just because it bothers you? I don't really get that logic.

If people want beer and wine, then give it to them. It would be good for the festival, and I bet for every silly conservative hell-bent on keeping this place in the stone-age that might not come out because *gasp* there's a wine booth (oh NO...the CHILDREN!!!), there would be ten regular people who would come to have a beer or a glass of wine and walk around and potentially buy stuff.

As it sits, a wine booth would give me a reason to spend some money there. No offense, but so far there's nothing much worth buying. It was a bunch of women's jewelry and overpriced homebuilt crafts. I ate before I went, so the food booths weren't really an option. And if I wanted to buy produce, I'd be at Publix where I wouldn't have to lug it a mile to my car. I was a little disappointed with it, because I really was expecting "Art" since that's the name of the event, right?

So look, better yet, why doesn't it just split it into two sections? One part of it can be art and a wine booth, and the other side of it can be crafts and produce? That would satisfy both "contingents" (though I bet I know which one will be busier). And FWIW, Portland's crafts fair is just that...a CRAFTS fair, and I wouldn't go to that either.

Seems you've taken my comments in a different direction than the point I was trying to make, and think I'm making a judgement from a conservative, fundamental, anti-drinking posture, which is not my position.

The Portland Saturday Market has been in consistent operation weekly from March through December for over 35 years.  It was founded as a place for Artisans to sell their work to the community, and it has since evolved into a great local/regional draw.  Seattle's Pike Place Market has functioned in a similar capacity for around a century, initially started as a direct-source vegetable market as a reaction against high retail pricing markup.  I hope the RAM realizes the same community support as a Cultural Experience, not a Beer & Wine venue.  Whether you like "craft" or "art" fairs, or markets, both are successful based upon their purpose and and haven't needed to "pander" to attract a wider audience by having beer & wine. 

Many festivals and events in Jacksonville, based upon experience, have become diminished because beer & wine IS the event.  Everything from the Downtown Art Walk (which has become less about Art), the beaches festivals, etc.  I'd hate to see this great (and important) addition to Jacksonville's Cultural Experience become similarly diminished.

By the way, if you've been to Portland's Saturday Market, and wouldn't go back because it's "just a Craft Fair", then perhaps the Riverside Arts Market isn't for you.  I suspect you can find plenty of what you're looking for along with the longneck budweiser and cutoff jeans crowd at the Beaches Festivals, Monster Truck Rallies, and the Suns' Thursday Night Throwdowns.

[civil42806]

what would be local other than potatoes?  My father an I ran a truck farm out of the norhtide (oceanway) for a few years, just don't see the possibilitly running an organic farmers market in this city.  Was there a lot of people there GREAT, what you want is heads downtwn

[ChriswUfGator]

Seems you've taken my comments in a different direction than the point I was trying to make, and think I'm making a judgement from a conservative, fundamental, anti-drinking posture, which is not my position.

The Portland Saturday Market has been in consistent operation weekly from March through December for over 35 years.  It was founded as a place for Artisans to sell their work to the community, and it has since evolved into a great local/regional draw.  Seattle's Pike Place Market has functioned in a similar capacity for around a century, initially started as a direct-source vegetable market as a reaction against high retail pricing markup.  I hope the RAM realizes the same community support as a Cultural Experience, not a Beer & Wine venue.  Whether you like "craft" or "art" fairs, or markets, both are successful based upon their purpose and and haven't needed to "pander" to attract a wider audience by having beer & wine. 

Many festivals and events in Jacksonville, based upon experience, have become diminished because beer & wine IS the event.  Everything from the Downtown Art Walk (which has become less about Art), the beaches festivals, etc.  I'd hate to see this great (and important) addition to Jacksonville's Cultural Experience become similarly diminished.

By the way, if you've been to Portland's Saturday Market, and wouldn't go back because it's "just a Craft Fair", then perhaps the Riverside Arts Market isn't for you.  I suspect you can find plenty of what you're looking for along with the longneck budweiser and cutoff jeans crowd at the Beaches Festivals, Monster Truck Rallies, and the Suns' Thursday Night Throwdowns.

Personally, I've never been to a monster truck rally or a 'throwdown', whatever that is. What I was looking for was an art show/sale/event in the park, which is what this thing was ADVERTISED to be. It is called the "Riverside Arts Market". Note the deliberate use of the word "Art" and not "Crafts".

So I went, and felt the focus of the event was not what I expected. I'm sorry if we have different views, but I don't consider a bunch of booths selling women's jewelry, meat pies, homemade blankets, and vegetables/produce, to be "Art". Again, this is an "ART" market. Where's the "ART"?

If you like homebuilt birdhouses and produce stands, then fine, more power to you. But then don't call it 'Art'.

And I still don't get your objection to beer and wine sales. How is Art Walk in any way "diminished" because I can grab a glass of wine on my way from one place to the next? If anything it's the OPPOSITE, since personally I find it easier to justify buying things I like if I've had a glass of wine. It certainly doesn't hurt for greasing the proverbial wheels of commerce.

Plus, I gotta tell you, if I added up everybody I know, I have a lot of friends who buy a lot of art, and every single one of them certainly enjoys a glass of wine or *gasp* even a beer, at events. Name me a gallery that doesn't serve wine at a minimum, during shows? And we're not talking folks who drive around in pickup trucks blasting lynard skynard, so quit trying to imply that allowing beer and wine sales would somehow turn this into  just one more monster truck rally. I'm really dying to hear your logic as to how the event would be "diminished"...

And I know we don't know each other, so you're just going to have to take my word on this one, but I'm really not some redneck who was expecting a kegger with a monster truck show mixed in. Quite the reverse, if anything I think I was expecting a lot more actual culture and artistic expression, and instead I wound up with meat pies and produce stands. Like I said before, at least if there was a wine booth, I would have spent $6 instead of $0...

[blizz01]

I really liked the look & feel of the bridge canopy overhead - it was sort of funny that most of the vendors were set up in tent booths - I suspect that will change as certain ones become "resident".  I still say bring on the likes of Bold City & San Sebastian Winery.  Seems like it could be a civil affair considering that it's over @ 4pm.  Beer & wine does NOT always = drunkfest.

[ChriswUfGator]

I really liked the look & feel of the bridge canopy overhead - it was sort of funny that most of the vendors were set up in tent booths - I suspect that will change as certain ones become "resident".  I still say bring on the likes of Bold City & San Sebastian Winery.  Seems like it could be a civil affair considering that it's over @ 4pm.  Beer & wine does NOT always = drunkfest.

That's a good idea about San Sebastian and B.C. It would keep the 'local' thing going.

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

Chris,

I also enjoy a drink at a gallery event, and at Art Walk.  In fact, I think Art Walk is so light on substance now that the drink and social interaction is basically the reason I go when I do.  And, I think that's too bad for the substance of the event as compared with other downtown weekly/monthly/seasonal Art Walk's around the country.  After living in this city for several years now, I can't figure out why every public community event needs to be accompanied by beer & wine.  Jacksonville is known as the city where "you can walk down the street drinking a beer", in a non-flattering way.  You mentioned a comparison to Seattle as a first tier city, which has a VERY strict policy of law and enforcement re: open containers in public places (including & especially as part of "community" events such as 4th of July, football games, etc.).  And, it has a downtown, civic, and cultural environment Jacksonville should admire and aspire to.

Perhaps there's a social/cultural norm in Jacksonville that I'm not tuned into, and that's ok too.  I didn't mean to begrudge you, and I don't judge your opinion, other than to disagree that I didn't need a drink to "enhance the experience" at the Riverside Arts Market yesterday.  I have no doubt that if you'd have enjoyed a microbrew yesterday, we'd all be none the worse for it.

Back to the topic of this discussion, let me say this.

I thought the Opening Day for the Riverside Arts Market was an overwhelming and unqualified success.  For the first day ever for this event, I thought the whole concept and execution was excellent, together with whatever challenges came about from the larger-than-expected crowds.  As this event matures, the vendors and public will figure out works for them, and it will take on it's own persona.  We should be so fortunate to have this event someday evolve into one of "Jacksonville's" signature events, rather than an imitation of another city's market.

The organizers of the event, and those who helped make it happen should be commended.  The great work over the past year or more was obvious.

In time, issues of Art, Craft, Produce, Food, etc. will become worked out naturally.  It's the beauty of a Local Market embodying local characteristics, led by local community leaders - rather than political groups or agencies.

Congratulations to all.

[CrysG]

If I'm not mistaken isn't the Art Walk at night? Does the Art Walk have face panting for kids? One thing has nothing to do with the other. I understand liking to have a beer or wine or even something stronger, but selling alcohol at 10 am on a Saturday at a family friendly art market?

There is a time and place for everything.

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

If I'm not mistaken isn't the Art Walk at night? Does the Art Walk have face panting for kids? One thing has nothing to do with the other. I understand liking to have a beer or wine or even something stronger, but selling alcohol at 10 am on a Saturday at a family friendly art market?

There is a time and place for everything.

Entirely agree.  I think that's what surprised me about the mention in the first place.

If Art Walk had a policy of no drinks while walking down the street, do you suppose attendance would remain the same?  If not, is it a viable "Art Walk"?

[ChriswUfGator]

If I'm not mistaken isn't the Art Walk at night? Does the Art Walk have face panting for kids? One thing has nothing to do with the other. I understand liking to have a beer or wine or even something stronger, but selling alcohol at 10 am on a Saturday at a family friendly art market?

There is a time and place for everything.

We went in the afternoon, not at 10am, and there were still lots of (presumably thirsty) people there. Honestly, I wasn't there earlier to compare, but I bet it probably picked up more people as the day wore on, since not everybody wants to jump out of bed at the crack of dawn on a Saturday.

Would it really hurt to have beer & wine sales from, say, 12pm to 4pm? Or 11:30pm-4pm? Nobody is advocating that people jump out of bed in the morning and head straight off to get loaded, and that was never the point.

But by the time afternoon rolls around, I just plain don't see what the problem is?

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris,

I also enjoy a drink at a gallery event, and at Art Walk.  In fact, I think Art Walk is so light on substance now that the drink and social interaction is basically the reason I go when I do.  And, I think that's too bad for the substance of the event as compared with other downtown weekly/monthly/seasonal Art Walk's around the country.  After living in this city for several years now, I can't figure out why every public community event needs to be accompanied by beer & wine.  Jacksonville is known as the city where "you can walk down the street drinking a beer", in a non-flattering way.  You mentioned a comparison to Seattle as a first tier city, which has a VERY strict policy of law and enforcement re: open containers in public places (including & especially as part of "community" events such as 4th of July, football games, etc.).  And, it has a downtown, civic, and cultural environment Jacksonville should admire and aspire to.

Perhaps there's a social/cultural norm in Jacksonville that I'm not tuned into, and that's ok too.  I didn't mean to begrudge you, and I don't judge your opinion, other than to disagree that I didn't need a drink to "enhance the experience" at the Riverside Arts Market yesterday.  I have no doubt that if you'd have enjoyed a microbrew yesterday, we'd all be none the worse for it.

Back to the topic of this discussion, let me say this.

I thought the Opening Day for the Riverside Arts Market was an overwhelming and unqualified success.  For the first day ever for this event, I thought the whole concept and execution was excellent, together with whatever challenges came about from the larger-than-expected crowds.  As this event matures, the vendors and public will figure out works for them, and it will take on it's own persona.  We should be so fortunate to have this event someday evolve into one of "Jacksonville's" signature events, rather than an imitation of another city's market.

The organizers of the event, and those who helped make it happen should be commended.  The great work over the past year or more was obvious.

In time, issues of Art, Craft, Produce, Food, etc. will become worked out naturally.  It's the beauty of a Local Market embodying local characteristics, led by local community leaders - rather than political groups or agencies.

Congratulations to all.

I don't see why the mere side-note of serving beer & wine would necessarily come to define the entire event? I don't think beer & wine sales have anything to do with affecting what Art Walk is, or any other event for that matter. The event is what it is, whether you can get a glass of wine has got nothing whatsoever to do with it. But it definitely DOES bring more people out.

I'm envisioning a wine & beer component to the "Arts" here, with B.C. selling their home-made brews, and maybe San Sebastian like another poster mentioned, offering their home-grown grapes. It would be really neat, and have an artistic component to it. I'm not just saying we should slap a miller lite in everyone's hand as they walk in, the beer and wine can actually be parts of the "Arts" and have a local flavor...

And that's actually relevant to the stated purpose of the event, unlike people hawking produce and vegetables and every other random thing...

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

Chris,

I also enjoy a drink at a gallery event, and at Art Walk.  In fact, I think Art Walk is so light on substance now that the drink and social interaction is basically the reason I go when I do.  And, I think that's too bad for the substance of the event as compared with other downtown weekly/monthly/seasonal Art Walk's around the country.  After living in this city for several years now, I can't figure out why every public community event needs to be accompanied by beer & wine.  Jacksonville is known as the city where "you can walk down the street drinking a beer", in a non-flattering way.  You mentioned a comparison to Seattle as a first tier city, which has a VERY strict policy of law and enforcement re: open containers in public places (including & especially as part of "community" events such as 4th of July, football games, etc.).  And, it has a downtown, civic, and cultural environment Jacksonville should admire and aspire to.

Perhaps there's a social/cultural norm in Jacksonville that I'm not tuned into, and that's ok too.  I didn't mean to begrudge you, and I don't judge your opinion, other than to disagree that I didn't need a drink to "enhance the experience" at the Riverside Arts Market yesterday.  I have no doubt that if you'd have enjoyed a microbrew yesterday, we'd all be none the worse for it.

Back to the topic of this discussion, let me say this.

I thought the Opening Day for the Riverside Arts Market was an overwhelming and unqualified success.  For the first day ever for this event, I thought the whole concept and execution was excellent, together with whatever challenges came about from the larger-than-expected crowds.  As this event matures, the vendors and public will figure out works for them, and it will take on it's own persona.  We should be so fortunate to have this event someday evolve into one of "Jacksonville's" signature events, rather than an imitation of another city's market.

The organizers of the event, and those who helped make it happen should be commended.  The great work over the past year or more was obvious.

In time, issues of Art, Craft, Produce, Food, etc. will become worked out naturally.  It's the beauty of a Local Market embodying local characteristics, led by local community leaders - rather than political groups or agencies.

Congratulations to all.

I don't see why the mere side-note of serving beer & wine would necessarily come to define the entire event? I don't think beer & wine sales have anything to do with affecting what Art Walk is, or any other event for that matter. The event is what it is, whether you can get a glass of wine has got nothing whatsoever to do with it. But it definitely DOES bring more people out.

I'm envisioning a wine & beer component to the "Arts" here, with B.C. selling their home-made brews, and maybe San Sebastian like another poster mentioned, offering their home-grown grapes. It would be really neat, and have an artistic component to it. I'm not just saying we should slap a miller lite in everyone's hand as they walk in, the beer and wine can actually be parts of the "Arts" and have a local flavor...

And that's actually relevant to the stated purpose of the event, unlike people hawking produce and vegetables and every other random thing...

If, as you say, having Wine and Beer WOULD bring more people out, then it WOULD affect the event, because that's evidently what would bring them out - according to you.  How can you say it has nothing to do with it, if they wouldn't be there if drinks weren't a part of the event.  You've contradicted yourself in one sentence.

Your definition of "Art" vs. "Crafts" seem to be at issue.  In Portland (since their Market has been mentioned as the inspiration), you can buy duct tape wallets, handmade iPod covers, tie-die hemp socks, and all sorts of pet supplies, birdhouses, jams & jellies, handcrafted jewelry, and all sorts of other things (some good some bad).  It's a great environment, and has something for everyone - both Art and Craft alike. 

The Portland Saturday Market draws 750,000 people to it's downtown every year, and is entering it's 36th or 37th year - and does so without offering patrons wine/beer while strolling.  And - Oregon wine and northwest microbrews would be a draw there.  San Sebastian Wine is no comparison to Oregon Willamette Valley wine!

We can agree to disagree.  Meanwhile, I wish the Riverside Arts Market every success and will support it at every occasion I can, and I hope everyone will as well, drink or no drink.

[obie1]

Not having wine and beer at RAM might be an enlightening experience for some residents. Guess what,  in order to have a cultural event be interesting or even cultural in the first place it doesn't need to have drinking as a major or even minor component of entertainment. Yes, that is right, there's a culture out there in other places that extends beyond the drinking culture. I realize that abstaining for so long, all the way up until 4:00, is a hardship for a lot of Jax -what the hell do you do with your hands if they don't have a smoke or a beer in them? So psychologically uncomfortable. Please advise!- but you can down a few bloody marys before the event and then bolt to a bar and at the same time support those local business after. Excruciating, but possible.

[ChriswUfGator]

If, as you say, having Wine and Beer WOULD bring more people out, then it WOULD affect the event, because that's evidently what would bring them out - according to you.  How can you say it has nothing to do with it, if they wouldn't be there if drinks weren't a part of the event.  You've contradicted yourself in one sentence.

I certainly didn't contradict myself one bit!

Though I do have to give you props for giving it the ole' college try and dragging out what has got to be the most fallaciously 'challenged' logic I've seen in awhile...

I said that simply serving beer & wine should not come to 'define' the entire event. Specifically, this is what I said:

I don't see why the mere side-note of serving beer & wine would necessarily come to define the entire event

I then said:

The event is what it is, whether you can get a glass of wine has got nothing whatsoever to do with it. But it definitely DOES bring more people out.

I never said that having more people wouldn't "affect" the event, in fact, I didn't even use that word at all, you did...and are now trying (unsuccessfully) to put your own words my mouth.

So why don't you re-read what I actually wrote. If you truly believe those statements are somehow contradictory, then I'm guessing you've got other issues.

[ChriswUfGator]

Not having wine and beer at RAM might be an enlightening experience for some residents.

Shouldn't that be THEIR decision to make, and not YOURS?

[DONTBELIEVETHEHYPE]

Not having wine and beer at RAM might be an enlightening experience for some residents. Guess what,  in order to have a cultural event be interesting or even cultural in the first place it doesn't need to have drinking as a major or even minor component of entertainment. Yes, that is right, there's a culture out there in other places that extends beyond the drinking culture. I realize that abstaining for so long, all the way up until 4:00, is a hardship for a lot of Jax -what the hell do you do with your hands if they don't have a smoke or a beer in them? So psychologically uncomfortable. Please advise!- but you can down a few bloody marys before the event and then bolt to a bar and at the same time support those local business after. Excruciating, but possible.

Great observation.  In fact, that's what other "first tier" cities do without complaint or resistance.