What Business Would Benefit From New Convention Center and Amtrak Back Downtown?

[Ocklawaha]

Here's an idea to gather information. How many businesses would be positively impacted by moving, and thus building a new Convention Center, and bringing Amtrak back downtown. For the purpose of this information gathering, we need to guesstimate every related industry in some detail, and assume that the new train station is equipped to be a full service terminal for all carriers.

I can start this off with just the service ware on a single dining car:

96 Individual Bakers
20 Casserole Dishes
20 Casserole Covers
12 Celery Troughs
12 Comports
75 Bouillon Cups
84 Coffee Cups
24 Egg Cups
45 Oatmeal Bowls
15 12-oz. Pitchers
24 Round Pie Dishes
30 Individual Berry Pie Dishes
12 A-la-carte Berry Pie Dishes
120 Bread & Butter Plates
72 Dinner Plates
18 Soup Plates
96 Tea Plates
12 Medium Platters
60 Small Platters
6 Chocolate Pots
36 Tea Pots
96 Coffee Saucers
24 Gravy Boats
96 Sauce Dishes
9 Shirred Egg Dishes

OCKLAWAHA

[urbanlibertarian]

Reverting the Prime Osborne back to a train station IMO is a good idea, but using tax dollars to build a Convention Center is a bad idea for 2 reasons.  1) The convention business is very competitive and not very profitable.  2) The property most likely to be the site of a new convention center (the current City Hall Annex and County Courthouse) needs to go back on the tax rolls.  I doubt that COJ can operate a CC without huge losses.  If no one will build and run a CC privately, we'd be better off without one.  Maybe someone could partner with the Hyatt to make it happen.

[thelakelander]

Convention centers are like roads, mass transit, public libraries and schools.  They may be money losers on their own, but the help spur development and feed the growth of a community.  The indirect monetary income providing these things makes investing in them worthwhile.

In the past, both Sleiman (Landing) and the Hyatt have expressed an interest in building a new convention center on or near the Bay Street courthouse site.  I think a public/private partnership is something worth exploring in the future to get the convention center out of the terminal. 

[BridgeTroll]

The time for that exploration is now... the new courthouse construction will begin soon.  Sure would be nice to have something figured out before everyone is moved out of the old building so work can commence on the site.

[thelakelander]

I agree.  The time to explore should have already occurred, but now is just as good a time as any.

[BridgeTroll]

It could possibly save Peytons legacy regarding the courthouse debacle to provide some creative leadership regarding the disposal and future plans of the old courthouse site.  I mean... a person could almost get behind the new courthouse if everyone could get excited about the prospects of the old site...

Sigh... dream on bt...

[Ocklawaha]

If Jacksonville develops its Jacksonville Transportation Center, with the Convention Center right in the middle of the complex, it is going to be a disaster.


Where's Miami's Convention Center in this photo?



Go back to sleep Jacksonville, Atlanta or Miami will do it while we think about it.


For you flyboys it would be like building a convention center at the junction of runways 4L22R and 9L27R at Chicago O'Hare. It REALLY is that big of a deal breaker.


Span Bay Street? Oh yeah, Dallas does it.

Moving it to the Waterfront as a public/private partnership perhaps with 2 more highrise hotels as anchors and a remake of the Landing and incorporation of the Hyatt and we'd have a WORLD CLASS center on the riverwalk. Shouldn't we be shooting for 200,000+ sq ft? If Jason is still around I love to see his models of the Convention center on the riverfront. I really wish it would span Bay Street and take out the whole Criminal Justice Complex.



Two large hotels Hyatt and ?? would bracket the center on either side, on the west of the Main Street Bridge the rebuilt landing would anchor another hotel at it's west end next to the Times Union Center. Visitors would have the option of walking the Riverwalk or walking through mall like passageway from roughly the current Jail and Berkman all the way to the TU CENTER and Omni. Streetcar and antique buses would complete the scene, and the Skyway could punch through on the East end of Bay where it flies over the road.


A train coming through the middle of the house? Dallas Convention Center LRT station.

Until then I'm all about a temporary JAXPORT PASSENGER type terminal and immediate reconstruction of the Park/Lee Street Viaduct and 4 new tracks with 3 platforms. This temp-Terminal would serve the downtown until we get the convention center moved and can go to work on a REAL station of all stations SOUTHEAST.

OCKLAWAHA

[vicupstate]

Charlotte's LRT line goes through it's Convention Center as well.

[Coolyfett]

Interesting. Hasn't been must rail and mass transit talk since gas prices went down. Good to see people are still at it.

[Ocklawaha]

Interesting. Hasn't been must rail and mass transit talk since gas prices went down. Good to see people are still at it.

Haven't seen you on here in a while... You been on a train or something? Good to see you back!!

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

ock...Miami's hub (the MIC) is out at the airport which may or may not be the best place....the Convention Center is downtown....but check Philly out....one of its major transportation hubs is Market East....and guess what they built right next door....yep, a Convention Center!

[Ocklawaha]

Thanks TUFSU, it's not the "next door" that worrys me, it's the RIGHT SMACK IN THE MIDDLE that I don't think is functional. Frankly if they followed the MJ plan to compact the terminal on the current Prime Osbourne site, then if they must, they could build the C-center to the North in LaVilla.

In other words next door would be fine here too, but I'm not really a big fan of LaVilla being the home of a Convention Center as it's too removed from the walkable core.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Correct, next door isn't the issue, although not being near complementing uses certainly is on the convention center side of things.   The problem with the current situation is that it stretches something that should be compact (for efficient transferring between different modes) into a linear monster potentially making transferring a nightmare while wasting potential infill TOD land in the process.  Its quite unfortunate that we continue to plan major projects like this without proper coordination in the 21st century. 

In this case, I don't blame the transit side.  Its the city that refuses to address the convention center issue.  At very least, we need to decide whether the convention center is going to stay or move.  The worst thing that could happen is, the JTC being built as proposed and then the city finally deciding the convention center is better off somewhere else.

[Ocklawaha]

In this case, I don't blame the transit side.  Its the city that refuses to address the convention center issue.  At very least, we need to decide whether the convention center is going to stay or move.  The worst thing that could happen is, the JTC being built as proposed and then the city finally deciding the convention center is better off somewhere else.

Well Oracle, looks like we now KNOW what will probably happen!

OUCH!

OCKLAWAHA

[fsujax]

well, if the City would commit to moving the CC then I bet JTA would love to develop the JRTC on one parcel around the Jacksonville Terminal.....still have the Skyway on Bay St, but that can be worked around.