A New Look for East Bay Street?

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, what is your median width shown in this image?  I'm wondering how it impacts the width of the through traffic and parallel parking lanes.

Lake, the drawing with the streetcar stop is from Los Angeles, and calls for a 16' streetcar lane, but I added 2' for plantings making for 18'. If I recall that put the walks at 8' on both sides of the street, all rofw was taken from the sidewalks.

My feeling is the huge 18' walk on the right of the Bay Street Drawing (original top of article) is from a long term plan to include the SKYWAY as that is the right of way. If so, I would support the Skyway over the streetcar on Bay, and use the Streetcar to move up town a bit and pull development North of the river.  It would still connect the Stadium/Randolph district with Riverside.

OCKLAWAHA

[marksjax]

Is it clear which side of Bay St will have the 10' sidewalk and which will have the 18' sidewalk?

[thelakelander]

The huge walk on the right is the north sidewalk and its already completed (phase 1).  I don't think it had anything to do with the skyway.  It was designed that wide for potential outdoor dining use.

The corridor width is 80', so to accomodate an 18' median, a lane (either parking or traffic) would have to be eliminated or the recently completed north sidewalk would have to be torn up and rebuilt at a reduced width.

18' - Existing sidewalk (North)
18' - Median to accomodate streetcar line with passing sidings and stops
10' - Sidewalk (South)
11' - Westbound Through Lane
11' - Eastbound Through Lane
68' - TOTAL

This leaves you with 12' of space.

8' - parallel parking
4' - bike lane
80' - TOTAL

This is feasible, but then the traffic engineering department would have to abandon their plans to convert Bay into a one way freeway on game days, between the stadium and I-95.

[BridgeTroll]

I am all for tree's and flowers... just not sure it is a good idea in a median on Bay Street.  The trees in the picture are deciduous.  The leaves fall off in the winter leaving the skeletal remains for three months.  The leaves need to be cleaned up.  Flowers need to be planted AND maintained.  They must be watered.  Someone mentioned that they provide pedestrian refuge.  To me this means trampling the flowers and darting from the bushes into unsuspecting traffic.

Now... if Laura Street were a pedestrian mall... plant all the trees and flowers we can find.

[Bike Jax]

I am really disappointed with most of the comments above....medians are a good idea...they slow down traffic, provide a pedestrian refuge, beautify the street (when maintained), and the trees provide for cleaner air downtown!

As for closing off intersections like in Springfield, that won't happen....this is a downtown grid

First, I would like say this is an idea that is being floated around City Hall. Nothing has been introduced to any councils as of yet. Love it or hate it, let your council person know.

I personally feel this just yet another piece meal project. I question how does this project fit within the long range development and transportation plans. Oh wait, it doesn't because we don't have one of either.

Tufsu1, you stated, that medians slow down traffic. Where does that information come from? Can you point me to data that backs up that assumption? I've been searching for months for hard data that proves that medians calm traffic and have yet to find anything.

You also state the median "provides pedestrian refuge". No pedestrian should ever have to take refuge in a median in this or any other city. All traffic should be stopped for however long it takes for an individual to safely cross any and every street. Period.

I'm not against this idea. I'm not for it. I haven't really learned enough about it. But I am for a compete and cohesive long range plan for both downtown development and our transit system. I would love to see most downtown parking removed completely and some streets closed to vehicular traffic (with the exception of trains/trolly's) and made pedestrian only permanently. But is that going to happen? (using your best British accent) Not bloody likely.

As for the new median along Main St.. To the person that stated they want to take a jackhammer to it. You just may see the city/state doing it for you in the near future. Bike Jax has been working with other much better funded organizations for sometime to bring suit against the city and FDOT concerning that median. I'm not at liberty to say which organizations right now. But think about it, are the handicapped and elderly expected to travel 6 additional blocks just to get across the street? A street that traffic is now moving well above the posted speed limits because they no longer need to be concerned with cross traffic, oncoming traffic or pedestrians.

[Ocklawaha]

AAPO-FTA SAFETY AND SECURITY GRANTS PROGRAM 2008

The function of access management:Reduce traffic conflict points
(consolidate or remove access
(consolidate or remove access points/driveways, median points/driveways, median openings)
Raise standard for design of access points/driveways access points/driveways
(smoother transition for vehicles entering/exiting roadway)
Increase awareness/response Increase awareness/response time for drivers
(fewer conflict points, greater distance between points)
The results of access management:
Decreasing the number of access points on a roadway will improve its crash rate
Adding medians to a road makes it safer than an undivided road or a it safer than an undivided road or a road with two-way left turn lanes
Adding medians also improves pedestrian safety
Consolidating median openings Consolidating median openings makes it is safer for vehicles to make a U-turn, or a U-turn and a right turn, than to make a direct left turn into a driveway

"If You Meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." The true Buddha lies within. (In essence, that means to seek your own truth. Whatever it is, if it does not ring true deep inside of you, then it isn't true â€" for you.)

Follow those who seek The Truth. Beware of those who find it.

OCKLAWAHA

[reednavy]

I am actually quite surprised at the amount of borderlined bitching I'm reading.

I'm all for this, Bay Street needs to be reduced and controlled, not a 3 to 4 lane one-way street right through the heart of downtown. This may lead to eventually turning all of Bay Street into 2 way, which would make much more sense.

Also, what is the big deal of immitating Las Olas BLVD? Apparently, Fort Lauderdale got it right, so apparently something is trying to get going. This needed to be done years ago, and we're slowly evolving.

About the tree selection, that is a conceptual drawing and likely Live Oaks will be used because they are excellent trees to create a canopy for this area.

I also approve this for slowly game-day traffic down, and force people to experience downtown. MLK is perfectly fine, and it is stupid and a pain in the rear to change the traffic flow for just a few hours. That costs man-hours and money.

[downtownparks]

Three or four lane street??? Its two lanes, and its one way for exactly one block of "e-town".

Im with Lake. A nice green strip with some tracks down the middle would be perfect.

[tufsu1]

Tufsu1, you stated, that medians slow down traffic. Where does that information come from? Can you point me to data that backs up that assumption? I've been searching for months for hard data that proves that medians calm traffic and have yet to find anything.

try these

http://www.walkable.org/

http://www.vtpi.org/

[Keith-N-Jax]

Some one mentioned Jax should get its own identity. Well dont many other cities have street cars and entertainment districts. Jax will always be unique because of its river, layout, and bridges. There's is nothing wrong with copying and idea as long as it works.

[Charles Hunter]

I've heard that Ron Barton of JEDC is hot for the median idea.

[thelakelander]

I wonder if Barton would be willing to make sure the median idea is designed from the start to accomodate the proposed streetcar line?

[heights unknown]

"Borderline bitching;" I love it.

I'll have to remember that one. (STOP YOUR BODERLINE BITCHING!)

Heights Unknown

[heights unknown]

Also, what is the big deal of immitating Las Olas BLVD? Apparently, Fort Lauderdale got it right, so apparently something is trying to get going. This needed to be done years ago, and we're slowly evolving.

There is nothing REALLY wrong "REEDNAVY" about imitating Las Olas; I lived in Fort Lauderdale for 10 years and we could learn from that City; but why don't our leaders, or other powers that be use their noggin and earn their pay and come up with fresh new ideas from Jax itself?  Jax can be Jax and not imitate Miami, Fort Lauderdale, or Tampa.

I guess if we have lazy leaders who want to emulate other cities and not have to THINK, then I guess nothing is wrong with imitation.

Heights Unknown

[copperfiend]

Can we emulate Las Vegas Blvd on Bay Street? Lets forget the Shipyards and put up some casinos on the land. Also, you could get a company to buy the land the courthouse and jail sit on, use the money to finance the new buildings. Anybody with me?