A New Look for East Bay Street?

[copperfiend]

Another problem may arise if they actually intend to tear down the old courthouse.

The new sidewalks would probably be ruined in the demolition process.

We'll just have to worry about that when the old courthouse is torn down in the year 3000.

[BridgeTroll]

 

[Ocklawaha]

Why take up a lane of traffic for trees and flowers?  I guess this means streetcars, trolleys or light rail is out of the question... argh....

I agree. Waste of money. Put a trolley car down the middle if you want to help Bay St.

I wonder what intersections they'll block with the median like they did in Springfield on 8th street.  What a waste of money.  I agree with the Trolley idea.  Introduce some FUNCTIONAL improvements to our streetscapes.  Oh well.  Another idiotic idea from our fearless leaders.   

Why does Jacksonville always have to emulate or mimick other cities, and to add to that, emulate or mimick other cities without thinking?  Someone mentioned streetcars/light rail is now out of the question; but I guess you can always pluck up the trees and median if a year from now you decide to go light rail/streetcars, etc. (but oh what a waste of money!).

Jacksonville needs to find itself and its own identity and quit trying to be like other cities.  Jax is a Southern City; a big southern city with a small town feel; so develop areas and developments relative to Jax's history, historic identity, Southern heritage, etc.

I was in Jax this past weekend and nothing"s really changed all that much since I left in 1995 compared to other major Florida cities; but I did like the bus stops in Springfield which reminded me of the porch posts on most of the old homes in and around Jacksonville; now that's using Jax's own history and identity to put a stamp on Jacksonville itself instead of trying to be like a South Florida City, Central Florida City, or other cities around the nation.

Heights Unknown

The hell with the median and landscaping.  Run tracks down that middle lane all the way to A. Phillip Randolph and make it part of the first phase of the downtown streetcars.

Or extend the SkyWay down that same stretch.  Either to the side of the street or put the support pylons in that same middle lane. 

Either of those is better, IMO, than trees and a median.  Just about anywhere downtown, but particularly there.

Why don't y'all just tell us how you really feel??

I'd like to address this drawing here:

Alternate I

COJ

Alternate II

JTA

Alternate III

CITIZENS
Any Questions?

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

I am really disappointed with most of the comments above....medians are a good idea...they slow down traffic, provide a pedestrian refuge, beautify the street (when maintained), and the trees provide for cleaner air downtown!

As for closing off intersections like in Springfield, that won't happen....this is a downtown grid...now what could happen is restrictions on left turns during peak hours if no turn bay is provided (although the drawing implies there will be bays)...and on game days, you would still have 2 travel lanes in each direction (if you restrict on-street parking).

I'd like to see a streetcar or skyway extension just as much as some of you....but it isn't going to happen overnight....this whole project is $1.5 million, of which the median is probably less than $500k....could we even buy a streetcar for that much (forget about operating costs)?

[copperfiend]

I am really disappointed with the comments above....medians are a good idea...they slow down traffic, provide a pedestrian refuge, beautify the street (when maintained), and the trees provide for cleaner air downtown!

As for closing off intersections like in Springfield, that won't happen....this is a downtown grid...now what could happen is restrictions on left turns during peak hours if no turn bay is provided (although the drawing implies there will be bays)...and on game days, you would still have 2 travel lanes in each direction (if you restrict on-street parking).

I agree. I think too many streets in our downtown are like 4 lane highways.

[Ocklawaha]

I'm with you tufsu1, HALF OF SOMETHING  is better then NOTHING AT ALL.

Guatama Buddha - “From its beginning, the world has been filled with a succession of calamities; over and above the unavoidable facts of illness, decrepitude and death.”

Guatama Buddha - “Following the Noble Path is like entering a dark room with A light in the hand; the darkness will all be cleared away, and the room will be filled with light.”


OCKLAWAHA

[Deuce]

I was about to say that it looks like the City was doing something right for a change but this idea seems to be getting blasted by the group. Maybe I was hasty in my praise.

Let me add a few cents of my own though.

If they block the medians like Main, what a disaster. If not, then an improvement over what they did on Main.
[Side note time. Every time I bike up Main, I think about a way to cut a path through the median at the intersections where there should be one, e.g. 3rd St. I figure some fake uniforms, a fake magnetic sign on a rented van (both made to look like a contracted construction crew), some orange cones, and a rented jackhammer. Think of the scene in Ghostbusters 2 where they drill through the middle of a New York street.]

Do we really want light rail down bay street? To me rail in jax means lines connecting downtown with the suburbs. As for trolleys, aside from events in and around the stadium, are they necessary on bay.

To make it easier for cars to leave the stadium after events. F that. Force those folks to spend their money downtown or even better live here. I call it Fascist Development. I personally am not interested in improving traffic flow through (and out of downtown). If I had the money, I would develop along State and Union to connect downtown with Springfield and I would promise the city that I would bring traffic to a standstill on those streets. I have no sympathy for the suburbanites who would bristle and complain at these suggestions.
You should have moved downtown when the getting was good or be planning a move for when the eco recovers. As for the complaints about the neighbor hoods or school that are commonly heard. Your environment is what you make it.

Ok. That's more than a few cents. I was in a ranting mood.

[thelakelander]

I can see both side's points.  Perhaps instead of a median, bike lanes should be added?  Or lay in track for a future streetcar line instead of landscaping?  There's a million different directions I can see that would be beneficial but it really comes down to what the long range plan is.  Whatever is done, it should be a part of building that picture.





Instead of a landscaped median, add rail for a future line or bike lanes?

[thelakelander]

If I had the money, I would develop along State and Union to connect downtown with Springfield and I would promise the city that I would bring traffic to a standstill on those streets. I have no sympathy for the suburbanites who would bristle and complain at these suggestions.
You should have moved downtown when the getting was good or be planning a move for when the eco recovers. As for the complaints about the neighbor hoods or school that are commonly heard. Your environment is what you make it.

Ok. That's more than a few cents. I was in a ranting mood.

Long term, through traffic should be encouraged to use MLK Parkway.  After all, its a limited access east/west bypass around the urban core.

[Ocklawaha]

Here is a SCALE version of the STREETCAR MONSTER I just posted. Now imagine, those are train tracks down the center of the street - BUT THEY ARE BURIED! On top is a layer of mowed grasses and flowers, on each side slinder trees and shrubs. Single track station would look just like this image, with cross walk protection signals just as on ever other urban rail system in America. Where there are no stations there is plenty of room for a double track route.

We are FINALLY CHEERING FOR OUR OWN IMAGE AND HERITAGE HERE! Remember, Jacksonville Traction was known around the world as the streetcar system in landscaped medians, side of the road or private tracks, all lush in tropical flora. It earned us the nickname "The Most Beautiful Streetcar Line In The World". So anyone that thinks the streetcar or even Skyway idea is a copy of someother place... pull your heads out, while I think overall we have the most beautiful Riverfront Downtown and Skyline on earth, our streets SUCK.

Remember too that Streetcar is MORE THEN TRANSPORTATION it is also a development tool with an incredible track record and an attraction that ORLANDO doesn't have (yet).

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Interesting proposal.  This is a way to save money in the long run, when you have a plan in place.  Looking at JTA's proposed streetcar routes, it would make financial sense to design Bay Street's median to accomodate a future line. 

[thelakelander]

Ock, what is your median width shown in this image?  I'm wondering how it impacts the width of the through traffic and parallel parking lanes.

[Tripoli1711]

This appears to be yet another example of the left hand not knowing or caring what the right hand is doing.  It appears that nothing is ever done with any vision of the larger picture.  This is an old gripe many have made, but I think that this is yet another perfect example.  I'm all for stuff looking pretty, but not if it essentially excludes the most natural and needed potential streetcar route.

[jtwestside]

What we need here is an earthquake. Then we can have our own "Embarcadero" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Embarcadero_(San_Francisco) type renewal. Meh, the leaders here would just level everything and make it a parking lot.

[JeffreyS]

Remember this median is just an idea being floated in the City Council.  We shouldn't say the plan is short sighted as it isn't a plan yet.  Let your city council members know what you think about this and that they should consider JTA's long term plan for those streets.