Springfield Business Corridor

[zoo]

I'd like to hear strider and sheclown's plans for attracting businesses to our commercial corridors or revitalizing the park system (and please be sure to include timelines, budgets, and funding sources). I haven't heard a plan from them for any actual positive neighborhood change? Please submit an outline of what you would do to improve Springfield (and we've already gotten that you would adhere to bylaws, get rid of certain boardmembers, make sure others are added through the elective process - this is fine, but what can you bring to this community after that?)

[sheclown]

Zoo, you ask very good questions and I will answer briefly here and then respond when I can put my undivided attention into it.  Please keep in mind that I speak only for myself and not anyone else.

There is a difference between ethics and performance which is huge. Some say that the ends justify the means, others do not believe this to be so. 

Ethically, SPAR Council is having problems.  Performance-wise, they are moving toward their agenda with efficiency. 

Some of us are concerned where the ethical wrong turn will lead.

[sheclown]

I'd like to think that Strider and I have brought a lot to the community already.  We have restored dozens of houses and I've left some blood, sweat and tears in many of them.  This community has been good to us in return.  It has provided us a (very) modest living for years.  There are many days when I don't leave the Pearl/Main Street loop.

That being said, I would always choose preservation over concentration on the commerical corridor.  These houses are brimming with immeasurable worth.  We are a historic district because we have historic value. I would immediately cease demolition plans.

As far as the business corridor goes, if we embraced and valued what we had, and didn't discourage places like Family Dollar who wanted to build here, the commerical corridor would develop on its own.  It has in the past.

Furthermore, I think I would leave the commerical development to SAMBA and the preservation to SPAR.  Isn't that what RAP has done?  Doesn't RADO deal with the development and RAP the preservation?

One last thing, I would change the SPAR Council membership dues to $10.00 or make it free membership like the old HSCC did.  In a neighborhood where 40% of the citizens earn $15,000 or less, charging $50.00 is cruel.

That's enough for now.

This really isn't about performance, as I stated previously.  This is about ethics.  I answered this for you, Zoo, because you asked.

[zoo]

As far as the business corridor goes, if we embraced and valued what we had, and didn't discourage places like Family Dollar who wanted to build here, the commerical corridor would develop on its own.  It has in the past.

LISC defined Springfield's trade area (TA) up to MLK. Family Dollar's new store is in our TA and on one of our main commercial corridors (Main St).

After attending LISC's Urban Forum and sitting in on seminars given by national experts on commercial corridors in revitalizing urban areas, listening in on the Downtown Retail Development Task Force meetings in 2006, attending 3 International Council of Shopping Centers (the international retail trade group) conferences, contracting with 2 reputable Jacksonville commercial brokers, meeting with at least 7 other well-regarded Jacksonville retail brokers and developers, and personally speaking with at least 15-20 possible retail tenants for our commercial corridors, I have not seen or heard a shred of evidence to suggest that Springfield's retail corridors will develop on their own. But I'm sure you know more about this than any of those people?

StephenD is correct in his earlier comments that attracting any business - entrepreneurial, mini-chain or otherwise - in the current contracting retailing climate will be beyond difficult.

If you all aren't happy with the pace at which SPAR is jumping for your meeting request, then I find it surprising you want to wait another decade OR TWO for the corridor to "develop on its own". I, and many other residents, don't.

Furthermore, I think I would leave the commerical development to SAMBA and the preservation to SPAR.  Isn't that what RAP has done?  Doesn't RADO deal with the development and RAP the preservation?

Someone like Tony Allegretti could correct me here, but I believe RADO does only development of affordable housing - not commercial development. Yes, RAP does preservation. Springfield is a different community, with many structures that were allowed to deteriorate far beyond most of those in Riverside/Avondale. I'm not for demolition, either, but I'm also not for letting them sit and rot some more while ne'er-do-wells occupy them, and we wait for someone to want to invest more in a property than they might ever see returned (also in a contracting employment and housing market).

Riverside/Avondale Preservation has also benefitted from financial contributions from well-heeled residents, and larger businesses close by (Everbank, Fidelity National Financial) - so much so they are listed as one of the "Jacksonville 80", which are the 80 top-funded non-profits in the city. They have benefitted from residents who have political clout, old family money, and that can use their geographic self-interest in an influential manner. This does not exist in Springfield (the closest thing we have are Mack Bissette and Jack Meeks). Nothing can be done without $.

One last thing, I would change the SPAR Council membership dues to $10.00 or make it free membership like the old HSCC did.  In a neighborhood where 40% of the citizens earn $15,000 or less, charging $50.00 is cruel.

So how would the work you expect SPAR to do be funded?!?!!? Do you and strider have access to some kind of money tree that is going to make all of this happen? This goes back to one of the main parts of my question that you failed to answer:

I'd like to hear strider and sheclown's plans for attracting businesses to our commercial corridors or revitalizing the park system (and please be sure to include timelines, budgets, and funding sources).

[sheclown]

StephenD is correct in his earlier comments that attracting any business - entrepreneurial, mini-chain or otherwise - in the current contracting retailing climate will be beyond difficult.

If you all aren't happy with the pace at which SPAR is jumping for your meeting request, then I find it surprising you want to wait another decade OR TWO for the corridor to "develop on its own". I, and many other residents, don't.

[/quote]

This is just to muddy the waters.  I answered you in good faith. 

Now, answer this, are you content with the election/by-law/appointment mess over at SPAR? What do you think ought to be done about it?

[downtownparks]

If you dont mind me answering that. How do we appoint/elect people if we don't know what their plans are? Understanding what someones goals are is paramount to knowing what kind of officer they are going to be. Bylaws and elections are important, but they are just a technicality in the grander scheme. If you were in charge, what would you do differently, aside from organizational stuff?

I agree with zoo, in as much as, the commercial corridors MUST happen now. We are past the turning point, and if we hope to be a sustainable, walkable community, we must get the things that make it that way. Stores that are safe and clean, coffee shops, clothing stores.

If we are able to build a sustainable commercial corridor, the rest of the residential will fall into place without much more effort. The fasted path to saving the hand full of truly decrepit structures is through a nice 8th and Main St.

[zoo]

Now, answer this, are you content with the election/by-law/appointment mess over at SPAR? What do you think ought to be done about it?

Wow, you all sure like repetition. I've already answered this question more than once by saying I think the board should hear your questions. They've agreed to do that. And I've indicated that I think their need to reschedule to January is without exclusionary intent and is legitimate for personal/professional reasons.

I have not reviewed the by-laws with a fine-toothed comb re: how many can be elected vs. appointed, term limits, etc., and I've no plan to do so, as my firsthand experience with SPAR has proven to me they have the best interests of the community at heart, and would not intentionally malign, mis-represent or exclude any of Springfield's residents from their process. The board members that have been called out on this thread are all intelligent people, who on a volunteer basis (and in many cases through their wallets), have gone above and beyond what any average community member should be expected to do.

I'm going to continue on doing the things I think will help the community (as I'm sure you will), and we'll have to agree to disagree on the organization's efficacy.

[strider]

Zoo, let me ask a question or two.  How long has SPAR Council been developing their "commercial development" plan?  One Week, One Year?  Given time, we (those of us who have had the audacity to discuss the recent issues) could and would get a decent plan together. 

To be honest, the only reason to ask is to attempt to move attention away from the real issues.  It is a common ploy used in politics.  Bring up irrelevant issues to muddy the waters.  Attack those who are opposing your view of things.  Try to sling as much mud as you can.  It is exactly what I was hoping for from SPAR Council and yes, even you.

I might also ask, why haven't you bothered to address the actual issues being discussed? .  Why is that, Zoo?  In case you haven’t gotten them yet, let me repeat them for you one more time. I’ll go slower so maybe you can get them this time.

1) The executive board is not following the by-laws.  This is in written record and from current board members. 

2)The elections were supposed to be held last October.  No one had the authority to not hold elections until the current board changed the by-laws June of  2008 to allow for appointing OR electing all board members.  This was once explained as a way to get the “right” people and talents on the board.  At the same time, the Governance Board was formed.  It was charged with  choosing candidates with the “right” talents and abilities and actually running the elections.  Instead, it illegally, as the by-laws do not give it this power, determined to not have elections. This is also in written form as minutes of meetings and votes and the actual by-laws.

3) The current Chairman of the Governance Board was appointed the end of last year. His appointment was illegal because he had already served 6 years and though it was “determined” at some point that if one year passed after someone’s  last term, they could serve again, this man was appointed before one year was officially up.  We were told by a current board member that the board was told “it didn’t matter” by the executive committee.  Just another point of not following their own by-laws.  In addition to this issue, the appointment process was not legal per the by-laws.  Also in written form and from past and current board members.

4) Recently, the names of the board members elected and appointed in various years was posted.  Several people who are past and current board members have been involved with this.  Based on this information, it is evident that at least three board members should have been up for re-election this past October.  Some believe the total number based on some appointments could be six board members.  This is based on the actual by-laws and the fact that it does not seem that these people were reappointed as is possibly allowed by the June, 2008 by-laws.  The question was asked if they had been re-appointed, but it was not answered and at least one current board member seems to agree that they needed to have been reelected or appointed to be legally on the board right now.

So, those four issues seem to be what is truly relevant  in this discussion.  If you wish to try to discredit me and this list, please remember that it is not really my list.  It belongs to the group that is made up of members, past members, past board members and current board members of SPAR Council and is indeed based on fact that can be supported in black and white.

I will be waiting for you to explain how the city will wish to continue to support an organization that can not and will not follow it’s own laws.  Why would LISC wish too as well?  What guarantee would or does any of us have that SPAR Council will do anything for the community it says it will when it won’t give us a vote, won’t follow it’s laws and insists that only they know what is best?

[uptowngirl]

This whole deal just sucks. I am sorry but it does.

Everyone wants a great neighborhood. Really, the complaints are pretty small:

More input from the neighborhood (for those that want some), better communication, voting ability; follow our own by-laws.

So SPAR is going to have a meeting...sometime, maybe January now. So what? We should not even be having discussions around why SPAR does not follow its own rules, about why they would attempt to change the rules to take the voice of the neighborhood away from the many and give it to the few. People can come on here and scream about how much SPAR does for the neighborhood (and it does) but that does not negate the issue at hand, SPAR is not following it's own rules, has people on the board that are not eligible, or whose term has ran out, and has attempted to change the by-laws to take the vote away from the neighborhood. As long as this is in place SPAR DOES NOT SPEAK FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD (and the city will figure that out unless changes are made). SPAR could just clean themselves up you know, they do not need to meet with the community to acknowledge the issues and fix them. This has been going on for a while, long enough to have fixed the issue and been done with it, but instead SPAR has chosen to go down the path of dragging it out as long as possible with many different excuses, and personal attacks by one of the most divisive soon to be, should be already, board members. If they couldn't meet on a specific date in October, why not change the date, now November (same thing), now December (same thing), how about January...think we will actually meet then? For what? If SPAR has the best of the best on the board then just fix yourself! It should not be too hard with all the great talent. If you are not eligible to participate on the board then step down, have elections and let’s all get on with our lives. SPAR does not know who is or is not eligible and/or whose term is up? Well what a freaking JOKE! If you can’t figure this out, then why should anyone trust this board to make decisions for the neighborhood???

Quit making excuses, attacking the voice of dissent, and fix your damn self….

[downtownparks]

Yes, I am certain the path to revitalization is halfway houses, pawn shops, and Main Street storage space...

[thelakelander]

The path to revitalization is somewhere between halfway houses and LISC.  They say there's nothing new under the sun.  My advice would be to take a look at similar neighborhoods that have had success and failure with commercial revitalization.  Embraces the avenues of success and avoid the paths of failure or the desire to engrave a new never before seen way of doing things.

[strider]

THis thread seems to be heading a new way - talking about who has the best chance of successfully helping Main Street.

SO:

Zoo, you said: LISC defined Springfield's trade area (TA) up to MLK. Family Dollar's new store is in our TA and on one of our main commercial corridors (Main St).

How does LISC and SPAR Council getting together to do commercial developement justify including 8 blocks that are not in the historic district and outside of SPAR Council's sphere of influence according to the Articles of Incorporation and the By-laws?  As a home owner in that area (New Springfield), I certainly would not want the current SPAR Council representing themselves to businesses and the city as representing my interests.  I understand the desire on SPAR Council's part as that part of Main Street is certainly more of a sucess than the first 12 blocks.  I would think as it is not a historic district, "new Springfield" would be better off with Metro North.

Downtown parks, you said: Yes, I am certain the path to revitalization is halfway houses, pawn shops, and Main Street storage space...

In a way, it is. By embracing and supporting the existing business, you can more easily attract additional businesses that cater to the largest social- economic group in the community.  Stores like Family Dollar, fast food restraunts, lower priced grocery and department stores.  Once you have those types of successful retail in place, it is much easier to get the coffee shops, the book stores, the restraunts many want to see.  That is just my opinion, others may know better, but it is what I have seen in other cities.  Look at the area between 12th and MLK. Is that not what you see there?  How much better would Main Street look if half of those stores where between 1st and 8th?

Lakelander,yes, this is what seems to make the most sense: The path to revitalization is somewhere between halfway houses and LISC.  They say there's nothing new under the sun.  My advice would be to take a look at similar neighborhoods that have had success and failure with commercial revitalization.  Embraces the avenues of success and avoid the paths of failure or the desire to engrave a new never before seen way of doing things.

Stephen?  I still miss those days - Boomtown, Epicurean and much more that is all now gone....

[downtownparks]

I dont disagree that gearing businesses towards both the long standing, lower income residents, both of Springfield and of surrounding communities AND the higher income new residents is a good goal. People, regardless of income or race deserve safe clean places to shop and eat. The problem is, many of the businesses in Springfield that have long catered to lower income folks simply dont appeal to those of us who have the ability to make a choice to go else where.

Premier food (or any of its subsequent names) was a great example. People with limited transportation shopped there because it was the only thing going as far as large grocery in the area. Winn Dixie being close second, Main Street Food Lion, Gateway and Riverside Publix all lesser options for someone who is on foot or reliant on public transportation.

I tried shopping at the Premier several times. Every time I came away not wanting to shop there again. Aside from the issues of smell and cleanliness (both are debatable I suppose), the selection was awful, the goods they did have often times were out of date, and generally speaking, it was not a good shopping experience. I now choose to drive the 4 miles to Riverside to shop at Publix. While the parking situation is a mess, I know they will have almost everything I want, and it will be in date and fresh. To add context to the issue, everytime I go there its a veritable Springfield party. I see neighbor upon neighbor shopping over there because for most of us, its the only viable option.

[uptowngirl]

Perfect example DTP! I too notice the neighbor fest, no matter the day or time.

[thelakelander]

Unfortunately for the Publix goers, it comes down to demographics.  Like most urban neighborhoods in this stage of revitalization, Springfield does not have the population numbers (in terms of demographics) for many businesses that newer residents seek.  The big boys don't need outside marketing studies to see this.  They do a lot of this stuff in-house.  With the Publix developments I've helped design, they need at least 20,000 underserved to justify a new store.  With Springfield, Winn-Dixie, Food Lion, Publix-Riverside and Publix-Gateway eat into that number.  Without embracing a higher population density, it will be a long time before Springfield or Downtown lands another typical 28,000sf - 54,000sf full scale supermarket. 

Perhaps a higher priority should be given to how to improve the conditions of our existing businesses.  For example, would Premier foods (I know they are closed now) appeal to more residents if it had clean floors, a fresh coat of paint, landscaping, exterior lighting and a better food selection?  Can improvements like this be funded by enterprise zone tax credits, grants and the Northwest Trust Fund? 

I say this because given the economic climate, it will be easier to improve existing businesses and fill in vacant structures already in standing.   This should be important to people who live in the community that do not support them because their success or failure, directly leads to whether the community can appeal to businesses that residents travel out of the neighborhood to access.  I'm on the outside looking in, in regards to the SPAR Revolt topic, but this is how I intepret Strider's last post about the revitalization process.  Its also one of the first steps most urban commercial districts in America go through in their path to come back to life.