Let’s Get Back to the Basics at JTA

[jaxlongtimer]

^ That looks like it would follow the hotel driveway (what would the hotel have to say about that or is that built in to their master plan?) and cut through JEA's water and electric utilities campus as I speculated above.  It would then have to somehow circumvent a building hugging the FEC tracks identified by Google maps as Gulfstream Contracting and then force some kind of change to the track and field at Landon Jr. High.  The proposed end at Southern Grounds appears to also be in use/privately owned.  And, how close can it hug the FEC tracks?  Is there really room for a double track and the separation needed at the end for vehicle reversal? 

Sorry, I don't see this path without a very large right of way cost and other technical issues.  For money, I am sure anything is possible but is it justifiable to my point.  Maybe in 2010 the pathway was clearer and that is now a lost opportunity?

Seems my suggestion to stop short of that behind the public library would be a lot easier to implement if even that could be done.

Sorry, but I think all this is dreaming as I have said before.  I just don't see an appetite anytime soon for expanding the Skyway.  It will be lucky for its proponents if it can just stay close to the way it is for now vs. shutting it down for good.  To your point, perhaps, if JTA had only focused on the Skyway and never pursued NAVI, the Skyway may have had a better chance of survival.  I said all along, NAVI was a potential knockout punch for it and the Skyway.  Two strikes in this case to an out.  Maybe curtailing bus service is strike three.

[thelakelander]

The average person doesn't have to "see" a path or try to answer the necessary widths, determine ROW needs, minimal turning radius for various technologies and rolling stock, cost estimates, where passing sidings must go, etc.

That's the purpose of doing unbiased planning, analysis and engineering studies, etc. with trained experts in the field. After the house is set back in order at JTA, Jax should start over with visioning what its regional public transportation should be before making any rash +$100 million decisions for any mode.

[jcjohnpaint]

The one thing I don't get is why the elevated tracks can't be used for another technology. Here in Jacksonville, I feel like they are looked at as only the obsolete cars can run on them, so we might as well tear the tracks down. When I travel to conferences, I always try and ride the streetcars. They are slow as they move in mixed traffic, always stopping for whatever obstacle they encounter on the streets. I usually give up and uber due to time restraints. Having elevated tracks getting out of mixed traffic is such a benefit.

[thelakelander]

The one thing I don't get is why the elevated tracks can't be used for another technology. Here in Jacksonville, I feel like they are looked at as only the obsolete cars can run on them, so we might as well tear the tracks down.

The elevated infrastructure can be used for another technology.

[jaxlongtimer]

First Diamond, now Howland.  Not usually in agreement with this crew, but on JTA they are "moving my way!" Exception would be cutting back on the Emerald Trail.  That should not be affected by JTA mismanagement.  The Trail is a great economic driver for Downtown and the greater urban area, so a worthwhile infrastructure investment.  Someone needs to release a study on the increased property taxes to be paid based on increased property values in proximity to the Trail.  Could be a better return than incentives given Downtown developers.

Howland says taxpayer dollars should prioritize services residents use daily.

"I think what we've got to do is we've got to rethink what is optimal transportation for the citizens of Jacksonville and the families and the businesses that depend on that transportation," Howland said. "I personally believe it's going to be optimizing fixed-route busing and paratransit, and it's probably going to be de-optimizing and scaling down things such as NAVI, the Skyway, and even some of the longer unfunded parts of the Emerald Trail. We need to get back to the basics, back to the core, and we need to deliver optimal transportation to the people of Jacksonville."...

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2026/10/06/jacksonville-leaders-debate-redirecting-30m-in-gas-tax-funds-to-rescue-jta/

[marcuscnelson]

^ So obviously I do think we have to optimize the buses and paratransit, hence this thread existing at all, but it does seem worth asking if as a City we're going to take any time to think about why we had to let things get to this point to have realized it was time to change course.

Nick Howland has been on City Council for four and a half years now. When he was previously asked about the U2C over two and a half years ago, he only had this to say:

I've really not had time to research in detail the U2C yet. It's been a busy few weeks on Council (Southbank storage, fuel depot, etc) and at The Fire Watch. We're about to announce that Northeast Florida has had the best 3-year veteran suicide reduction in the country. That's why I directed you to Jacoby. I know this is your passion. Can we meet on it in May and you can lay out all the issues with JA? I do want to see what you've learned.

I'd certainly like to know if he feels any regret about having not done that research by being so busy elsewhere. Might have saved some money, apparently!

Someone needs to release a study on the increased property taxes to be paid based on increased property values in proximity to the Trail.  Could be a better return than incentives given Downtown developers.

If Amendment 3 passes next month, I'm not so sure that'll remain true, especially with the presently suburban makeup of many of the neighborhoods outside of Downtown proper that the trails would run through.

[thelakelander]

I was the prime consultant for COJ's Durkeeville Revitalization Study in 2025. During the process of getting under contract in 2024, I had a few council members question my selection.

In a private meeting, one un-named CM who isn't on council anymore, told me he knew I was qualified but was upset about me publicly speaking out against the U2C. My immediate response was that "I don't know what that has to do with the Durkeeville study, but yeah I'm against it and if you want to question me about my position, I'm your Huckleberry.

I'm a professional in the industry and you're a politician. I'll rip you to shreads and anyone else behind it."

That NAVI convo immediately ended and the guy never questioned me again on it.

I smell ignorance with a lot of elected city leaders around the transportation talk. A bunch of buzz words without rational technical data to guide rash decisions.

I'd love for someone to post the top 10 to 20 transit routes in this town (regardless of technology), by ridership. Lets really see what essential services that the majority of transit users really looks like and then go from there.

[thelakelander]

As for many of these projects, there's another word I'll say is needed that many advocates will hate to hear. Its "value engineering." Budgets only stretch so much. We'll need to learn how to do more with less. That can easily be done without sacrificing quality. There are a lot of creative opportunities out there, once we reach the point to where we accept that fiscal reality.

[jcjohnpaint]

I was the prime consultant for COJ's Durkeeville Revitalization Study in 2025. During the process of getting under contract in 2024, I had a few council members question my selection.

In a private meeting, one un-named CM who isn't on council anymore, told me he knew I was qualified but was upset about me publicly speaking out against the U2C. My immediate response was that "I don't know what that has to do with the Durkeeville study, but yeah I'm against it and if you want to question me about my position, I'm your Huckleberry.

I'm a professional in the industry and you're a politician. I'll rip you to shreads and anyone else behind it."

That NAVI convo immediately ended and the guy never questioned me again on it.

I smell ignorance with a lot of elected city leaders around the transportation talk. A bunch of buzz words without rational technical data to guide rash decisions.

I'd love for someone to post the top 10 to 20 transit routes in this town (regardless of technology), by ridership. Lets really see what essential services that the majority of transit users really looks like and then go from there.

👏👏👏

[fsu813]

Storm clouds forming over JTA.  Not a fan of our State Attorney General but I get his vibe on this one.  I wonder if it would be better to be investigated by the State or U.S. Attorneys instead.  No matter what, an investigation by someone is called for.

Florida attorney general launches probe of JTA amid financial crisis
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2026/09/29/florida-attorney-general-issues-subpoena-to-jta/92000618007/

Being bad at business and decision making isn't illegal.

This is a 100% political fishing expedition to see if any negative headlines can be generated for the anti-Donna campaign.

As predicted, the fishing expedition has begun.

By many accounts, including those on city council, the significant decisions/discussion regarding these issues date back to 2021, but the subpoena only dates back to 2023.

[jaxoNOLE]

Storm clouds forming over JTA.  Not a fan of our State Attorney General but I get his vibe on this one.  I wonder if it would be better to be investigated by the State or U.S. Attorneys instead.  No matter what, an investigation by someone is called for.

Florida attorney general launches probe of JTA amid financial crisis
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2026/09/29/florida-attorney-general-issues-subpoena-to-jta/92000618007/

Being bad at business and decision making isn't illegal.

This is a 100% political fishing expedition to see if any negative headlines can be generated for the anti-Donna campaign.

As predicted, the fishing expedition has begun.

By many accounts, including those on city council, the significant decisions/discussion regarding these issues date back to 2021, but the subpoena only dates back to 2023.

Yeah, it's probably better just to let it go than have a partisan AG investigate. That's been working out swell for the city and JTA for the past decade.

Pardon my sarcasm, but at this point any semblance of oversight is welcome news, even if the motivation is partisan. Deegan's recent order recommending optional training on financial responsibility and ethics begs the question, is this training not already required? I've been required to complete that type of training since I was an entry-level worker, yet we have JTA board members whose lack of financial sense is being attributed to a lack of HR-mandated annual courses? We allow the CEO to submit financials without certifying their accuracy? That's beyond farcical.

I'm a fan of Deegan's but her position on U2C is indefensible. If partisans are able to score political points because of it, that's on her. Plenty of feedback reached her and her office begging for a different result, and it fell on deaf ears.

[fsu813]

Ethics training is required currently.

I suspect this will elevate the importance of these volunteer positions and the thoughtfulness of those who appoint and confirm (mayor, governor, city council) to these positions.

I'm a fan of Deegan's but her position on U2C is indefensible. If partisans are able to score political points because of it, that's on her. Plenty of feedback reached her and her office begging for a different result, and it fell on deaf ears.

It's not indefensible. It's the same reason why this same city council, JAX Chamber, last mayoral administration, all but 1 JTA board member, etc all supported it......... until *now*. They all trusted the CEO to be competent.

[Ken_FSU]

Ethics training is required currently.

I suspect this will elevate the importance of these volunteer positions and the thoughtfulness of those who appoint and confirm (mayor, governor, city council) to these positions.

I'm a fan of Deegan's but her position on U2C is indefensible. If partisans are able to score political points because of it, that's on her. Plenty of feedback reached her and her office begging for a different result, and it fell on deaf ears.

It's not indefensible. It's the same reason why this same city council, JAX Chamber, last mayoral administration, all but 1 JTA board member, etc all supported it......... until *now*. They all trusted the CEO to be competent.

U2C was a stupid idea from day one due to expense, capacity, unproven technology, and limited TOD. But one organization that deserves its fair share of the blame for this, and many other failed downtown projects, is DVI. I've said it many times, but the State of Downtown Report is one of the most damaging, disingenuous documents produced in Jacksonville.

U2C, and more specifically the Bay Street Innovation Corridor, was sold up the river to the Feds as a connector based on an imaginary $3 billion pipeline of Shipyards, Lot J, Convention Center, Ford on Bay, Berkman 2, and Laura Street Trio projects, zero of which have come out of the ground nearly a decade later. Jake Gordon famously said that when including projects, "the tie goes to the runner." In this case, that generous positioning helped propagandize this insane albatross that we're now paying for with every dollar of gas we buy.

[jaxoNOLE]

Ethics training is required currently.

I suspect this will elevate the importance of these volunteer positions and the thoughtfulness of those who appoint and confirm (mayor, governor, city council) to these positions.

I'm a fan of Deegan's but her position on U2C is indefensible. If partisans are able to score political points because of it, that's on her. Plenty of feedback reached her and her office begging for a different result, and it fell on deaf ears.

It's not indefensible. It's the same reason why this same city council, JAX Chamber, last mayoral administration, all but 1 JTA board member, etc all supported it......... until *now*. They all trusted the CEO to be competent.

If the training is already required, it means the new order is performative CYA, not substantive change.

The defense of NAVI by Deegan as recently as Decemeber 2025, long after concerns had been raised for years and real results were coming in, is absolutely indefensible. Just because many other stakeholders fell for the same BS doesn't make it otherwise. Giving her a pass because we like her reinforces the same governance weaknesses that have held Jacksonville back since consolidation.

[jaxlongtimer]

But one organization that deserves its fair share of the blame for this, and many other failed downtown projects, is DVI. I've said it many times, but the State of Downtown Report is one of the most damaging, disingenuous documents produced in Jacksonville.

U2C, and more specifically the Bay Street Innovation Corridor, was sold up the river to the Feds as a connector based on an imaginary $3 billion pipeline of Shipyards, Lot J, Convention Center, Ford on Bay, Berkman 2, and Laura Street Trio projects, zero of which have come out of the ground nearly a decade later. Jake Gordon famously said that when including projects, "the tie goes to the runner." In this case, that generous positioning helped propagandize this insane albatross that we're now paying for with every dollar of gas we buy.

I would suggest that DVI has done more to hold back Downtown than move it forward.  Why?  It appears, first and foremost, to be a mouthpiece paid to promote Downtown, regardless of what is truly happening, not actually "visioning" Downtown as its name would suggest.  As such, it has little credibility with anyone that matters due to overpromising and underdelivering while quality Downtown "visioning" never actually gets addressed.

DVI is also so narrowly focused on Downtown that it fails to collaborate/incorporate/appreciate that Downtown is part of the greater urban area and that a rising tide raises all boats.  I have never seen DVI reach out to surrounding neighborhoods to create partnerships that might feed patrons into Downtown.  DVI treats Downtown as an "island" in the urban stream as if it was self sufficient, not interdependent.

DVI has little to no clout with retaining or attracting companies and, historically, there have been few residents to "organize" within Downtown's borders. I am assuming Visit Jacksonville takes care of tourism. So, who exactly, do they impact/assist/etc.?

Not saying DVI has done zero but events and ambassadors are temporal in nature, not foundational improvements, so not what Downtown really needs to move the needle.  As such, I don't see any lasting legacy from its existence. 

I would rather see a JUVI, "Jacksonville Urban Visioning, Inc." that is charged with organizing a real visioning process that includes master planning and a holistic view that exploits the synergies that could be built by incorporating and interconnecting with the entire urban environment.