City unveils Jaguars stadium plan

[Ken_FSU]

I haven't compared closely. Just curious, what in the new renders do you think looks value engineered? I think we've got to set expectations properly, knowing that this is a $1.4 billion refurb vs. the new $2.5 to $5 billion ground-up stadiums being built in other markets. I remain astonished that the city was able to work out a 30-year lease extension with the Jags for $750 million, given the price tags we're seeing in other cities. With $150 million coming back into the community through the CBA.

[Ned Plimpton]

Lots of value engineering in the latest renderings

He's just trolling.  The only new rendering showing a premium space is the field level suite.  The original renderings showed several premium spaces. There have been some technical changes due to constructability, but value engineering is minimal.

[tufsu1]

^ ok maybe not lots but compare the roof structure, scoreboards, and video ribbons over the series of renderings.

[Charles Hunter]

^ ok maybe not lots but compare the roof structure, scoreboards, and video ribbons over the series of renderings.

That would be an interesting photo essay, watching the evolution of the stadium design.

[simms3]

I'll second that it looks a bit VE'd and that's the general commentary out in the wild that I've been hearing.  It happens, things are EXPENSIVE right now.  Still optimistic it will be a great end result, much needed.

[Lostwave]

I put this together to show the difference between the 2023 (original) and the 2025 october renderings.

Rendering Comparisons

Click the links at the bottom of that page to see 5 different angles / rendering sets.
Slide the blue dot to go back and forth, image on left is 2023, on right is 2025.  You can see how much of it got value engineered away.  In the 2025 renderings you can really see the current stadium bones, where as the 2023 renderings everything was redone.

Also, on the outside, you can see the originals had a ton more grass and landscaping, new is very concrete.
Stadium was much sleeker and swoopier, now its more of a typical cylinder.

[jaxlongtimer]

I put this together to show the difference between the 2023 (original) and the 2025 october renderings.

Rendering Comparisons

Click the links at the bottom of that page to see 5 different angles / rendering sets.
Slide the blue dot to go back and forth, image on left is 2023, on right is 2025.  You can see how much of it got value engineered away.  In the 2025 renderings you can really see the current stadium bones, where as the 2023 renderings everything was redone.

Also, on the outside, you can see the originals had a ton more grass and landscaping, new is very concrete.
Stadium was much sleeker and swoopier, now its more of a typical cylinder.

This is great, Lostwave.  Thanks for doing. 

Definitely steps back from the originals.  In particular, I notice that many finishes, coverings, etc. have been removed exposing bare concrete and steel walls, floors, ceilings and superstructure.  And, as you note, replacing landscaping with concrete and scaling back the design of the roof.  By example, the concourse that had some personality and warmth now looks like an institutional airport lobby.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more step backs being implemented between 2025 and the completion of construction, especially if the rumored cost overruns are correct.

I also note the removal of the originally appearing Lot J oriented entertainment district from the 2025 renderings.

[Ken_FSU]

I put this together to show the difference between the 2023 (original) and the 2025 october renderings.

Rendering Comparisons

Click the links at the bottom of that page to see 5 different angles / rendering sets.
Slide the blue dot to go back and forth, image on left is 2023, on right is 2025.  You can see how much of it got value engineered away.  In the 2025 renderings you can really see the current stadium bones, where as the 2023 renderings everything was redone.

Also, on the outside, you can see the originals had a ton more grass and landscaping, new is very concrete.
Stadium was much sleeker and swoopier, now its more of a typical cylinder.

Dude, what a fantastic resource.

Really well done.

Actually does remind me a lot of the original Daily's Place renderings (not the very original amphitheater concept, but the first renders of what Daily's would become) vs. the finished Daily's Place. So much of the sleekness and fit and finish was value engineered out, and we ended up with more of a utilitarian & nondescript concrete box.

Hoping the new stadium doesn't end up with that same concrete parking garage feeling of Daily's.

I expected the roof to change, but wasn't expecting to see features that were talked about prominently in the community huddles like the park-style tropical entrance into the stadium remove entirely.

All that said, you get what you pay for. Can't have Sofi Stadium with what Jacksonville taxpayers are willing to stomach.

[Ned Plimpton]

All that said, you get what you pay for. Can't have Sofi Stadium with what Jacksonville taxpayers are willing to stomach.

Amazing that there would be differences between a $5B stadium and a $1.5B stadium.  Jaxlongtimer's comments perfectly illustrate the difficulties of the Jacksonville market/fanbase.  Lamenting the price tag and not wanting to contribute public funds and then nitpicking things that were done to save money.  I think once the surrounding developments are started/completed, people will forgive a few cost cutting measures that allowed the city to keep the Jags for the next 30 years.

[jaxlongtimer]

All that said, you get what you pay for. Can't have Sofi Stadium with what Jacksonville taxpayers are willing to stomach.

Amazing that there would be differences between a $5B stadium and a $1.5B stadium.  Jaxlongtimer's comments perfectly illustrate the difficulties of the Jacksonville market/fanbase.  Lamenting the price tag and not wanting to contribute public funds and then nitpicking things that were done to save money.  I think once the surrounding developments are started/completed, people will forgive a few cost cutting measures that allowed the city to keep the Jags for the next 30 years.

The "nitpicking" comes from the way things are presented.  The Jags knew all along the budget range for this project yet put out there renderings based on a much bigger investment to "seduce" people into supporting the funding.  No problem asking for money, but be honest about what you get for it upfront.  Stop the game playing.  They did the same thing with Daily's Place.

[Jax_Developer]

All that said, you get what you pay for. Can't have Sofi Stadium with what Jacksonville taxpayers are willing to stomach.

Amazing that there would be differences between a $5B stadium and a $1.5B stadium.  Jaxlongtimer's comments perfectly illustrate the difficulties of the Jacksonville market/fanbase.  Lamenting the price tag and not wanting to contribute public funds and then nitpicking things that were done to save money.  I think once the surrounding developments are started/completed, people will forgive a few cost cutting measures that allowed the city to keep the Jags for the next 30 years.

The press has worked on you & quite a few other people. The Jags are incapable of building a new stadium here - so a completely mute point... There is literally no room for it. All other examples you will find had space elsewhere so that the construction did not meaningfully lapse existing games. The conversation here was "how much of what is existing can be utilized & what do we want to add?" and not "remodel vs. new"...

The Jags absolutely rinsed the city in the negotiation with additional terms this & that... I think it's completely fair to be critical of any VE efforts. I really don't care that cost have risen... that was a selling point of their package. Tough luck, shouldn't have made that claim in the first place. It's not like prices really ever go down... so that was either an honest or dishonest lie, you pick either option.. yikes either way.

[Ken_FSU]

All that said, you get what you pay for. Can't have Sofi Stadium with what Jacksonville taxpayers are willing to stomach.

Amazing that there would be differences between a $5B stadium and a $1.5B stadium.  Jaxlongtimer's comments perfectly illustrate the difficulties of the Jacksonville market/fanbase.  Lamenting the price tag and not wanting to contribute public funds and then nitpicking things that were done to save money.  I think once the surrounding developments are started/completed, people will forgive a few cost cutting measures that allowed the city to keep the Jags for the next 30 years.

The "nitpicking" comes from the way things are presented.  The Jags knew all along the budget range for this project yet put out there renderings based on a much bigger investment to "seduce" people into supporting the funding.  No problem asking for money, but be honest about what you get for it upfront.  Stop the game playing.  They did the same thing with Daily's Place.

Totally fair statement here as well. The renders that were presented at the community huddle were presented by the team as representative of what the finished product would look like. If the design changes were truly value engineering, a case could be made that the Jags (being responsible for cost overruns) should build fully to original specs and absorbed those costs, versus value engineered them away.

[Joey Mackey]

Not to get lost in the shuffle, but as Lostwave pointed out, his comparison is from an old set of renderings (October 2025) (link).

The most recent renderings were released last week (link). Either way, I won't be jumping to conclusions based on a handful of renderings, I will wait to see the finished product.

[Jankelope]

I agree with some of the pessimism here, but at the same time, the real value here is keeping the Jaguars for another 30 years. the price of the stadium for taxpayers is $25.8 million a year (although it's a little worse for us than that since we're doing it upfront rather than inflation adjusted dollars over the decades)

$25 million a year and you keep your NFL team. 1.2% of the budget (as of now) to remain an NFL city.

I don't like that we have to subsidize a billionaire owner while Sofi stadium has ZERO taxpayer liability. Considering that though, we still spent less than most peer cities, we are getting the #1 request that everyone had, which is a roof/covering for our stadium.

I am not sure what kinds of debates on what was required to stay and not be VE'd away during contract negociations, but it's also on the city for not ensuring that kind of VE wasn't possible.

[marcuscnelson]

^ If we want our NFL market to require less (not ZERO, because ultimately the city of Inglewood and other entities are still responsible for supporting infrastructure around that stadium, including transportation infrastructure) then we need our market to become like Los Angeles to the point of the NFL not feeling compelled to demand money to be here. That's not impossible (we have an NFL team in the first place, after all) but it's certainly a tall order for our caliber of regional leadership.

But also yes, it seems notable now that more stadium deals have progressed that we are spending relatively little to get a covered stadium. Buffalo spent much more for a new stadium without a roof, Charlotte is renovating without a roof, while Cleveland, Nashville, Denver, Kansas City, Washington, and Chicago at least are all building expensive new stadiums that will likely have roofs. UF is gearing up to spend as much money as EverBank's renovation on their stadium to not have a roof either.