JTA meetings on the future of the Skyway

[thelakelander]

thelakelander
I'm still confused where this streetcar option comes from, with a cost estimate when there's been no real evaluation of a route that makes sense or is meeting some type of demand to justify its consideration.

From what I recall of the JTA's presentation to the TPO CAC, they replicated the Skyway route with the Streetcar. But, since no map was provided, who knows? Does it cross the river, and if so, how? Replace the Skyway infrastructure with streetcar rails? All a big mystery.

And, yes, I know it is folly to use JTA's numbers, but, it's all we have.

IMO, we have nothing. A streetcar replicating the Skyway's route is even more foolish. Everyone knows the Skyway needs expansion to actual destinations.

If starting over, which a streetcar would certainly be, its not financially feasible to build a new river crossing for such a short line and it be better for the initial route to tie into actual destinations like the sports district as opposed to parking lots and garages.

Wrapping fish would be a better use for JTA's cost estimates document.

[Jax_Developer]

I think every single person in JTA leadership needs to be fired at this point. Full Board sweep. These numbers are laughable and dishonest. $428M - which includes virtually zero new track.

The new FSCJ program is also laughable & further adds to the obvious corruption. When are locals going to wake up & realize Jacksonville is not some AV capital. Donna needs to realize this is gonna tank her election.

[Des]

Wasn't JTA adding a Brooklyn station for like $2m pre-COVID?

[thelakelander]

Yes, it was something cheap like that. Now its hundreds of millions. Its really hard to take them seriously at this point.

[marcuscnelson]

Today's Daily Record includes O&M costs for some of the alternatives:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2026/sep/01/jta-skyway-reuse-costs-are-15195-million-to-56544-million/

• Rehabilitate the existing Skyway to add 10-12 years of life: $276 million
• Place new APM trains on the Skyway structure & extend to Brooklyn: $428 million
• Convert the Skyway to accommodate NAVI & add ramps: $294.23 million + $11.05 million per year
• Demolish the Skyway & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $151.95 million + $9.03 million per year
• Turn the Skyway into an elevated trail & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $260.10 million + $13.52 million per year
• Build a modern streetcar at street level: $565.44 million + $15.74 million per year
• Do (essentially) nothing: $15.15 million + $11.85 million per year

These estimates presumably don't also include the cost of operating NAVI's current segment, and the Record did not provide the O&M costs of the alternatives that modernize an APM.

I do find it interesting this reveals that the cost of maintaining an elevated trail is about $4.49 million per year. That's a pretty substantial portion of what it costs to run trains up there while competing with the Emerald Trail, taking pedestrians off the street, and forcing all transit to compete with automobile traffic at FDOT's whim.

[thelakelander]

What is the do nothing alternative? What happens when the Skyway breaks from doing nothing? Are we then still on the hook to pay the feds back? If so, its way more than $15 million.

[marcuscnelson]

^ JTA has not updated their website with these revised alternatives and cost estimates yet, and whatever presentation they provided to board members isn't available either.

The original website for the earlier public meetings says the following:

The No Build keeps the Skyway system operating as it does today with the last two remaining vehicles. The existing track, vehicles, and automated train control system would remain in use as long as feasible. Required track repairs would be made to maintain basic service as for as long as possible.

CONSIDERATIONS

• Fewest Potential Construction Impacts
• Track and Vehicles Nearing End of Life
• Federal Funding Requirement
• Ongoing Repairs Still Needed

[Ken_FSU]

Wasn't JTA adding a Brooklyn station for like $2m pre-COVID?

Try lowering than number by 60%, and you've got the truth.

A shockingly low $800,000.



All in, $1.2 million when you include some very minor tweaks to the tracks.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/02/24/jta-to-add-skyway-station-in-brooklyn-this-year/

Shock of all shocks, JTA botched the permit in JTA ways (missing signatures, failure to get sign-off from the DIA), they never bothered to follow up or fix it, and the permits all expired last year.

$800k to extend the Skyway into Brooklyn, compared to $50 MILLION dollars just to build a control center for the clown cars.

• Rehabilitate the existing Skyway to add 10-12 years of life: $276 million
• Place new APM trains on the Skyway structure & extend to Brooklyn: $428 million
• Convert the Skyway to accommodate NAVI & add ramps: $294.23 million + $11.05 million per year
• Demolish the Skyway & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $151.95 million + $9.03 million per year
• Turn the Skyway into an elevated trail & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $260.10 million + $13.52 million per year
• Build a modern streetcar at street level: $565.44 million + $15.74 million per year
• Do (essentially) nothing: $15.15 million + $11.85 million per year

This is all so disingenuous, and so clearly designed to try to shift narrative in a certain direction.

If I'm the mayor, I'm taking a stand against NAVI sooner than later. She's doing such a fantastic job, but the dollars are so huge here, and affect every taxpayer in Jacksonville, that she's leaving herself exposed if a political opponent wants to push this issue hard in the next election.

[jaxlongtimer]

All the JTA numbers are just silly.

How can doing nothing cost almost as much as the other options for using the track, one way or the other??!!!

Do (essentially) nothing: $15.15 million + $11.85 million per year

$11.85 million to blow off the track every few weeks with a leaf blower?  What else?  I assume the $15.15 million would be to fence/secure the structure and platforms so security should be minimal unless there is over-the-top vandalism.  No doubt our robust JSO patrols of Downtown would keep that at a minimum - NOT!

Are we then still on the hook to pay the feds back? If so, its way more than $15 million.

I have said it before.  I think this issue is a red herring by JTA. After almost 4 decades of failure for an EXPERIMENTAL/DEMONSTRATION project, I can't see how the Feds would be upset with abandoning the Skyway which served its "purpose" to prove this is not a feasible way to do mass transit.  No one at the Feds today was around when the original project was funded so I doubt any egos would be hurt either.

I still haven't seen an exact calculation of the alleged penalty and how that compares to the annual losses of running the Skyway to the very end of 50 years.  It can't be much after all these decades if it was even enforced.  Politically, I think we also could get it waived if we tried.  Heck, the reflecting pool at the Lincoln Memorial, that failed, cost a lot more than this penalty would.  We won't even talk about the White House ballroom, the Kennedy Center, or the Golden Arch.  The Feds won't miss the money.

I would add that only one option, rehabbing the existing Skyway even meets the "spirit" of the original project.  All the others are substantially divergent from that if that is what would get the ire of the Feds.