Bellwether Closing

[thelakelander]

^I'm not missing your point. I'm giving some space to struggling business owners because there's a strong possibility, some of these special events have led to them losing money in the past. So there's a possibility that many do know and select not to open odd hours outside of their normal business hours.

Ultimately, we have a downtown void of consistent foot traffic and the opposite of that is the real solution. Its going to take a while to recover from the bad mistakes of the past and the office market changes since the pandemic. Yet, consistent programming along with clustering of complementing uses within a compact setting will get us there if we embrace this over the local politics of the past.

[MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain]

I don't think the CBD can—or should—depend primarily on office workers to survive. They're a bonus, but they shouldn't be the foundation.

I'm not sure what buildings most of you work in, but mine is on the far edge of the downtown overlay. We actually have a café with chefs at different stations serving food daily, yet most people still bring their own lunch. The menu changes every day as well.

From my personal experience, when we host a client we usually cater in. After meetings, a few of us might go to a local restaurant if colleagues from my org are traveling in, but that's about it. I imagine many companies downtown will operate similarly going forward, which means the weekday lunch crowd for restaurants will likely decline.

What downtown really needs is to rely more on visitors, Jacksonville residents doing business downtown, and—partially—CBD workers who want to step out of the office. Even then, restaurants alone can't carry the CBD. There needs to be a strong retail component that works hand in hand with dining.

In many ways, the playbook already exists in places like SJTC, San Marco, Avondale, Neptune Bch/Atlantic Bch, Ponte Vedra TC, Fruit Cove, Jacksonville Bch, and even the future Gateway Pearl Street initiative. Each area succeeds because it has a mix of retail and restaurants that complement each other. The combinations are different everywhere, but they create destinations people visit throughout the week.

Downtown just needs to determine what type of retail best complements the restaurants that are already there, along with any future additions. Why are those other areas able to stay active during the week without failing? Businesses always come and go for many reasons, but each place has anchors that bring people in—and it's not solely dependent on the food scene.

[thelakelander]

^Downtown had retail, so that answer isn't hard to replicate. You'll need some density (residential, hotels and destinations/events that draw people in) all clustered together. When it comes to retail, you'll also need to take advantage of streets with higher traffic counts. Better visibility and the ability to not totally rely on downtown itself will be a big plus. Thats why Brooklyn has been a success. Riverside Avenue draws a market much larger than DT itself. Again, coordination is needed (i.e. a plan) so that all of our ideas and resources swim in the same direction, align with the market  and build upon each other.

[MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain]

@thelakelander You nailed it—that's the formula for any successful downtown, regardless of size. Whether it's a smaller town like DeLand or a global city like New York City, the fundamentals are the same - make it walkable. It's absolutely doable; it just requires a clear plan and consistent execution.

If you listen to developers speak whether it's an interview or podcast or simply watch how successful districts evolve, the sequence is usually the same: residential comes first, followed by retail, restaurants, and commercial space. Hotels tend to arrive later once the area has proven demand. For the core of downtown, we shouldn't stray too far from that playbook—those fundamentals work everywhere for a reason.

It's no surprise that downtown Jacksonville has an unprecedented amount of vacant office space compared to other major Florida cities. But this can also be an opportunity. There's no need to reinvent the wheel—many cities have followed a proven playbook for revitalizing their downtowns.

With initiatives tied to UF and the Florida Semiconductor Institute, we'll likely see more tech companies entering Florida markets, and Orlando is already starting to benefit from that momentum. Jacksonville should position itself to capture some of that growth.

That said, we can't put all our eggs in one basket. Diversification is key, but there still needs to be a clear vision for the industries we're courting. Tech, startups, AI, banking, defense and aerospace Tech and FinTech make sense given Jacksonville's existing anchors.

At the same time, when companies relocate, there needs to be an environment that supports their workforce—places to live, retail, restaurants, and things to do. Cities like Austin are thriving because they built both the tech ecosystem and the lifestyle to support it. Jacksonville has the pieces—it just needs a focused vision to bring them together.

On a side note, I've always disliked coming over the Main Street Bridge and being greeted by a parking garage on the left across from Cowford Chophouse. That corner should be one of the most important gateway sites in downtown. Ideally, it would be redeveloped into the city's next tallest tower—something iconic—with a well-known hotel and residential component from a major hospitality brand that people instantly recognize and that offers strong loyalty perks.

It's the kind of project that would immediately elevate the skyline and make a much stronger first impression when entering downtown.

[thelakelander]

Being strategic with gateways is a must. This was one of the old gateways (Main Street), which was aligned with traffic:









This type of energy stretched continuously from the Main Street Bridge through Springfield and right into Brentwood and Panama Park. It was undone with the opening to I-95, which siphoned most of the regional through traffic right out of the Northbank and into the burbs. As the market shifted, we began our decades long practice of bad decision-making that ended up with most of Main Street being surface parking lots, parking garages and blank walls. We can't change the past, but when we know better, we should do better!

[Charles Hunter]

Transportation observation - it looks from the shadows in photos on the bridge that it was late afternoon, and the lanes were 3 out / 1 in - reversible lanes for peak traffic!

[copperfiend]

The irony of Bellwether closing

[tufsu1]

Transportation observation - it looks from the shadows in photos on the bridge that it was late afternoon, and the lanes were 3 out / 1 in - reversible lanes for peak traffic!

Foreshadowing?

[Jones518]

Bellwether closing isn't exactly shocking. For years the restaurant had inconsistent hours and often wasn't open during standard lunch or evening times (weekends and evening times seems to be where downtown is gaining momentum). Any business will struggle if customers can't rely on it being open.

Yes, downtown still has pedestrian traffic challenges, but the restaurant industry is struggling nationwide even places at the Town Center close regularly ( Mimi cafe closed then changed to Ida Claire...that closed then changed to Wiskey cake...). When that happens, nobody blames foot traffic there. M shack closed and turned into shake shack...bread and board didn't just close their downtown location they also closed their town center location.

At the end of the day, great food, good service, business management, and consistent operations still matter.

Overall, all three things can be true at once:
• Downtown still has structural challenges
• The restaurant industry is struggling nationwide
• Bellwether may have had operational issues

Mixed Fillings Pie Shop is another example. They have a great product...arguably some of the best pie in northeast Florida, but inconsistent operations make it difficult for repeat customers to support the business regularly. I can't tell you how many times i drove downtown hoping they would be open to find out they weren't. After so many tries you give up as a customer..

Businesses have to step their game up if they want to survive in this day and age. Hold some of these business accountable too.

Did BellWether have a liquor license? why not lean into an evening cocktail bar concept or winery? Or themed nights for dinner?

[heights unknown]

Anyone know whether that intersection is Duval and Main (the last photo)? And...it was mentioned that the opening to the then new I-95 had a lot to do with the traffic, being circumvented from Main (and other downtown streets), thus reducing auto, pedestrian, and other traffic from Main (especially?), causing restaurants, retail, etc. to falter and eventually close. When I was a kid in the 1960's (we lived on Duval Street in LaVilla), I used to love when my Mom took me shopping downtown. Jax in those days was bustling, not only during the day but also at night (I would go to the Center Theater at times (at night) to see Movies and you could smell the food of the restaurants, music from the bars and taverns, people in the parks, buses roaring around the central business district downtown going wherever). We moved from Jax in 1967 to Fort Myers. About 3 years later we returned for a visit and the razing and demolition had begun; not in LaVilla (late 1990's?), but in the CBD yes. Awesome pics. I would say those pics were probably taken in the mid-1950's.

[heights unknown]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that last pic is probably around State and Union Street (on Main Street) going into Springfield. If that is where that pic was taken, I am awestruck at how dense that area used to be back in the day (I never ventured into that area as a Child). If I am wrong please correct me.

[thelakelander]

The last picture is Main and Union, looking north into Springfield. This is where the FBC parking garage is now located on the left and the dirty Shell gas station on the right.

[thelakelander]

I would say those pics were probably taken in the mid-1950's.

Great guess! They were taken in 1952!

[jcjohnpaint]

These pictures blow me away. Insane about what was and what was lost.

[Des]

I'm not sure how to post an image, but here's a link to a quick side by side comparison of 1952 vs today give or take a block.

https://imgur.com/gallery/jax-1952-vs-today-e3McbA2