Council committee OK’s legislation to support Mayport Village mixed-use projects

[thelakelander]

A community effort to revitalize Mayport by restoring what was once its vibrant commercial fishing economy has been a volunteer affair thus far.

That could change soon, thanks to a Jacksonville City Council ordinance that would provide $154,100 in city funding to hire professional staff and make property improvements to help drive the redevelopment forward.

Ordinance 2024-0476 would provide a $110,000 grant to the nonprofit Mayport Waterfront Partnership to bring aboard an executive director and grant writer, plus pay for office supplies, professional services, web maintenance and marketing. The remainder of the funding would go toward new signage and to-be-determined property upgrades related to the district project.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/jul/16/council-committee-oks-legislation-to-support-mayport-village-mixed-use-development/

[marcuscnelson]

Isn't this where the cruise terminal was at one point proposed? Final nail in the coffin on that, I suppose.

[Charles Hunter]

Yeah, that ship sailed ages ago.

[thelakelander]

Yes, the nail in the coffin was years ago. I actually love the idea of investing in docks to attract fishing vessels. I think that investing in the infrastructure will attract some shrimpers from other areas like St. Augustine and Fernandina to cluster at Mayport.

[jaxlongtimer]

Isn't this where the cruise terminal was at one point proposed? Final nail in the coffin on that, I suppose.

From my conversations with port personnel, JPA"s focus is mainly aimed at freight.  The cruise angle is nice but it is never going to be front and center here, either due to highest and best use of port facilities, limited ability to physically handle the largest ships and/or inability to compete with well established cruise ports at Port Canaveral, Port Everglades and Miami.

[Charles Hunter]

Isn't this where the cruise terminal was at one point proposed? Final nail in the coffin on that, I suppose.

From my conversations with port personnel, JPA"s focus is mainly aimed at freight.  The cruise angle is nice but it is never going to be front and center here, either due to highest and best use of port facilities, limited ability to physically handle the largest ships and/or inability to compete with well established cruise ports at Port Canaveral, Port Everglades and Miami.

However, if I remember correctly, one reason for moving the cruise terminal to Mayport was to allow large cruise ships to call here. And allow the Dames Point site to be devoted to the more profitable cargo ships.

[jaxlongtimer]

Charles, to add, Mayport was killed because the citizens of Mayport didn't want the traffic, etc. to overrun the small area that it is.  If JPA had done their homework, they, too, would have realized that Mayport could not handle a flood of several thousand people at a time on a regular basis.  There is only one two lane road in and out or the slow moving ferry.  No hotels or space to adequately support the landside needs of large cruise ships. 

The best example, and it was only once a year, of thousands descending on Mayport, were the first couple of years of the jazz festival (originally called Mayport and All That Jazz, as I recall) that was centered around the ferry slip.  It only worked at all because the Navy allowed cars to park on the runway tarmac at the bases (imagine that happening today!).  When the festival grew, the Navy said enough, and pulled out forcing the festival to relocate to downtown Jacksonville.  Lesson learned:  Without the Navy's land, Mayport could not handle a large number of visitors.  Sometimes, history has lessons for the future  .

[Charles Hunter]

Yes, I remember both Mayport and All That Jazz and the ill-conceived attempt by JaxPort to stick a cruise terminal in Mayport.

[iMarvin]

There's more than enough space to build a cruise terminal, parking garage with retail, and a hotel or two on all the vacant land in Mayport.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ My reference to a lack of space wasn't necessarily related to an inability to build out what it would take landside to support a cruise terminal as much as, if it was built, the remaining space in Mayport would not be satisfactory for the residents living there and maybe for some businesses... starting with forcing the traffic, noise, commotion, etc. associated onto its small entry/exit point tying up its "main" street (on a grander scale, see I-4 in Orlando when the theme parks are opening and closing  ) and altering its character.

As to space needed, if we are mostly a drive-to cruise port, I would think a garage for passengers and workers would have to approach at least 1,500 to 2,000 or so spaces which is a decently large garage for the area.  A cruise terminal with baggage handling, security clearances, warehousing and loading supplies for the ship, providing on-shore services and utilities, etc. would also likely be somewhat imposing relative to the area. No idea about a hotel(s) especially as I am not sure if one could survive on only "day before" arrivals" connected with a ship's departure.

In the end, all of this would transform the "laid back" vibe of Mayport due to the overall smallness and restricted access of the subject area which apparently a lot of people would like to preserve on some level.

[Charles Hunter]

Traffic on the two-lane A1A between the cruise terminal and Wonderwood (SR 116) and on down to Mayport Road (where the 4-lane starts) would be very congested, especially for disembarking passengers, who would all be leaving at the same time. The Carnival Elation, which currently calls here, accommodates nearly 2200 passengers. So figure over 1000 cars leaving the garage at the same time. Traffic would be backed up from the traffic signal at Wonderwood to the garage. 

But ... the reason given for moving the cruise terminal to Mayport was to allow bigger cruise ships to come to Jacksonville. The Elation is in the smallest ship class (Fantasy) in the Carnival fleet, at 855 feet long with a capacity of 2,130 passengers. The rest of the Carnival fleet includes ships of around 3000 passengers, 3700 passengers, 4000 passengers, and the newest over 5300 passengers (and over 1100 feet in length). Moving up to any of these would further overburden the village and the road.